In reply to Proposition Joe

Proposition Joe said:

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JCA1 said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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gambochaman said:

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Wouldnt there be criminal charges and potential prison time for Ippei?

I would imagine that if he is indeed just a fall guy, he probably wouldnt go for loss of freedom

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The whole concept of a fall guy is that they are willing to do what they need to do if the price is right.

If someone offered you $5 million would you go to white collar country club prison for 6 months?

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Could be. But I would think it would take a pretty decent chunk of change to get him to throw his current life away. Seems like that would be pretty tough to conceal, both in terms of the transaction itself and the interpreter's unexplained/newfound wealth.

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Whether he decides to be the fall guy or not, his current life would consist of being an unemployed interpreter. Either he takes the fall and he's fired, or Ohtani takes the fall and he's no longer employed.

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Ohtani is accusing him of stealing millions of dollars. You're leaving out the likely very lengthy prison sentence that comes with that.

In reply to JCA1

JCA1 said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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JCA1 said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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gambochaman said:

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Wouldnt there be criminal charges and potential prison time for Ippei?

I would imagine that if he is indeed just a fall guy, he probably wouldnt go for loss of freedom

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The whole concept of a fall guy is that they are willing to do what they need to do if the price is right.

If someone offered you $5 million would you go to white collar country club prison for 6 months?

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Could be. But I would think it would take a pretty decent chunk of change to get him to throw his current life away. Seems like that would be pretty tough to conceal, both in terms of the transaction itself and the interpreter's unexplained/newfound wealth.

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Whether he decides to be the fall guy or not, his current life would consist of being an unemployed interpreter. Either he takes the fall and he's fired, or Ohtani takes the fall and he's no longer employed.

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Ohtani is accusing him of stealing millions of dollars. You're leaving out the likely very lengthy prison sentence that comes with that.

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Only if Ohtani decides to follow through on it, which he won't.

Otherwise the feds aren't going to step in to go after the interpreter because of money he allegedly stole from Ohtani. They aren't looking to "get" Ohtani. If a smoking gun like betting slips or voice recordings of Ohtani come to light during their other investigation then things would get interesting, but to-date I haven't heard anything close to that.

MLB can and likely has done their own investigation, and again without a smoking gun I very much doubt they are going to tarnish the poster child of not just MLB but the Asian MLB market.

Simply put, it's plausible enough that the interpreter was stealing the money. So minus a smoking gun showing the bets were 100% made by Ohtani -- which only the MLB not the feds will really be digging for -- this goes away.

In reply to Ag_07

Ag_07 said:

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That won't happen because it wasn't theft.

Look at the tweet posted on the previous page. None of the authorities have received anything from the Ohtani camp.

Rest assured friend or no friend if you steal $4.5M from anyone they're going to do anything and everything in their power to get it back. Including going to the authorities. Ohtani has yet to do anything about it.

Pretty telling

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I wouldn't say so. I'd say the Ohtani camp realized they took some major missteps in the initial handling of this situation and aren't going to rush to do anything until their legal teams have decided to.

Don't confuse the sports/twitter talking heads framing things to get eyeballs with the actual process. Ohtani reps declining to talk to the press about the situation at this point isn't "telling", it's what any intelligent person would do at this point.

ESPN receiving "no confirmation" from state and federal agencies that they've received a report from Ohtani's camp again isn't telling.

Basically they ****ed up thinking they could get out in front of this quickly and make it go away, and then walked it back when they realized this is a big enough deal that they need to handle it professionally (read: with a high dollar legal team that knows exactly what to do).

In reply to Ag_07

Ag_07 said:

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That won't happen because it wasn't theft.

Look at the tweet posted on the previous page. None of the authorities have received anything from the Ohtani camp.

Rest assured friend or no friend if you steal $4.5M from anyone they're going to do anything and everything in their power to get it back. Including going to the authorities. Ohtani has yet to do anything about it.

Pretty telling

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I agree with all of that. I was just pointing out that for the interpreter to take the fall for Ohtani's current story, he has to cop to stealing millions.

But I agree that Ohtani will likely never pursue charges, despite his people saying he would (and anyone would do if they were the victim of theft on this scale). And if he never does so, that will make it very hard for anyone to believe his story. Quite frankly, he should have stuck to the first story, because the interpreter would likely have taken the fall for being the guy who placed the bets.

Ohtani's name is on the wire transfer

isn't that the start of a smoking gun?

if the interpreter's name was on the wire transfer -- that would support the "he stole the money" theory much better

Seeing more and more reports saying this wasn't a "$4.5m wire transfer" but rather this was wire transfers totaling $4.5m over a span of a number of months/years.

In reply to JCA1

JCA1 said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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Seeing more and more reports saying this wasn't a "$4.5m wire transfer" but rather this was wire transfers totaling $4.5m over a span of a number of months/years.

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Which makes his story even harder to believe. No way he went months (possibly years) without some accountant/financial advisor/etc looking over his books and raising a red flag over mysterious 6-figure wire transfers.

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Yeah I've never known entertainers and their entourages not to have pristine books.

In reply to Proposition Joe

Proposition Joe said:

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JCA1 said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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Seeing more and more reports saying this wasn't a "$4.5m wire transfer" but rather this was wire transfers totaling $4.5m over a span of a number of months/years.

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Which makes his story even harder to believe. No way he went months (possibly years) without some accountant/financial advisor/etc looking over his books and raising a red flag over mysterious 6-figure wire transfers.

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Yeah I've never known entertainers and their entourages not to have pristine books.

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Ohtani is repped by CAA and making millions of dollars in a country where his command of the language is somewhere between non-existent and middling. No way financial advisors isn't part of CAA's services.

But maybe you're right and he's logged into turbotax trying to crank out his tax return as we speak.

In reply to JCA1

JCA1 said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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JCA1 said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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Seeing more and more reports saying this wasn't a "$4.5m wire transfer" but rather this was wire transfers totaling $4.5m over a span of a number of months/years.

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Which makes his story even harder to believe. No way he went months (possibly years) without some accountant/financial advisor/etc looking over his books and raising a red flag over mysterious 6-figure wire transfers.

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Yeah I've never known entertainers and their entourages not to have pristine books.

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Ohtani is repped by CAA and making millions of dollars in a country where his command of the language is somewhere between non-existent and middling. No way financial advisors isn't part of CAA's services.

But maybe you're right and he's logged into turbotax trying to crank out his tax return as we speak.

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Ok, now apply that same logic to what you're suggesting -- Ohtani is repped by CAA and making millions of dollars in a country where his command of the language is somewhere between non-existent and middling. He's got handlers, interpreters, and financial advisors looking over everything.

And he's wiring millions over the span of a year or two to a known bookie?

But maybe you're right, I'm sure no one would stop him and say "hey man if you're going to do the one thing that can get you kicked out of the league at least don't wire from your own bank account".

I'm not saying it's not possible Ohtani racked up a $4.5m sports gambling debt on his own and decided just to pay it off via wire with no intermediary.

But from what we actually know -- not twitter and ESPN curtailing headlines to be sensational ("OHTANI CAMP REFUSES TO TALK!") -- I'd say the most likely scenario is the interpreter was siphoning money off of Ohtani's accounts for a period of time and the $$ figure was finally big enough he could no longer hide it.

I know to some people that amount of money just going unaccounted for seems incredible, but the Jags guy literally gambled away $20m from the organization over years and took forever for anyone to actually notice.

In reply to Proposition Joe The point was it's highly unlikely that there wasn't someone in his camp that would have brought these transfers to his attention if it's been going on for years. But once they brought them to his attention, he can lie/tell them it's none of their business/etc because they work for him. He doesn't owe them an explanation and they're really in no position to question him once he confirms they are legit. The point was it's hard to believe these transfers hadn't been discovered by someone.

Look, clearly the interpreter stealing millions is possible. But IMO, the much more plausible scenario in light of what we know or can reasonably deduce is that Ohtani was betting either directly or through his interpreter. But opinions can definitely vary.

If this had happened to Aaron Judge, the commissioner would have given him an award for being so brave.

Do we know yet if the betting was on the Super Bowl or the horses? Or on baseball?

In reply to 91AggieLawyer I think this is a situation where people fall into the trap of curtailed headlines and confirmation bias.

"He's not going to the authorities so he must be guilty!"

As others have mentioned, this is a big deal. Ohtani already mis-handled it by rushing the initial statement about him paying off his interpreters debt that he had to walk back. Every single thing from that point on is/was going to be handled by his legal team to make sure there's no more screwups.

You don't try and talk your way out of things, you don't hand over anything you don't have to. If there is a real case to be made against Ohtani, you make them make it. This is Lawyer Up 101.

In reply to Proposition Joe I don't really see anyone disputing that or making any definitive claims. People are just discussing the info as it comes in.

And it's also important to note there's the criminal prosecution side and the PR side. Assuming he's telling the truth, I agree that he should take his time and do a forensic accounting before going to the authorities so he knows the full scope of what happened. But there's also the PR side and his reputation is on the line. To date, his camp has refused to even comment on when he intends to instigate a criminal investigation. This is a bad look for him. Again, if he's telling the truth, all they need to say is "we are currently attempting to uncover the full scale of the theft and will be filing a complain with the authorities when it's concluded." Yet, for some reason, they've completely clammed up. As the supposed victim of a crime, that's odd. Since this is a message board to discuss such things, that's worth noting.

In reply to JCA1 But it's not really a bad look. Barring any added communication from either side, it will go away in a month. All his side really has to point to is a lack of any charges filed against Ohtani and that will be "proof enough".

If he's telling the truth or not telling the truth, the strategic move is to shut up.

sports betting is illegal in California

either Ohtani or the interpreter (or both) broke the law by placing bets with a Golden State bookie

the "pressing of charges" is a non-issue for the illegal betting activity

In reply to Proposition Joe I'm not saying i disagree that his best move is to shut up, but if that's what he was going to do he should've done that from the beginning. With his contradicting stories, it's just not plausible that he's telling the truth in my opinion. He literally said he made the payment to a bookie for his interpreter. And then did a 180 and said the interpreter stole money and made the payment. That, along with the fact that it's not just one payment but apparently is multiple payments, show that there is no way his story or stories have any credibility.

Also, I disagree that this will go away in a month. It is so obvious that he bet (or is at least lying about what happened) and people will be bringing this up for 10+ years. Maybe the mlb tries to cover it up and nothing comes from it (this will likely happen), but I don't think it's going away. He will forever be a meme and this is the first thing everyone will think of or mention when his name is brought up from here on.

In reply to Proposition Joe

Proposition Joe said:

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If he's telling the truth or not telling the truth, the strategic move is to shut up.

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Agree and that's perfectly fine

But the downside of that is all we can do right now speculate and discuss based on the information available which for him points to something is not lining up and the whole thing is very suspect.

In reply to Proposition Joe

Proposition Joe said:

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But it's not really a bad look. Barring any added communication from either side, it will go away in a month. All his side really has to point to is a lack of any charges filed against Ohtani and that will be "proof enough".

If he's telling the truth or not telling the truth, the strategic move is to shut up.

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To give 2 contradictory stories, claim you're going to the authorities, and then never do so and refuse to comment further is just about as bad as he could handle this.

Gambling is pretty much accepted now so I agree that it will probably blow over for the most part. That was likely to happen regardless of how he handled it. But that doesn't mean he hasn't screwed this up royally and this will always be a footnote for him with some if this is what happens.

He was gambling and he butchered some of his fall guy cover. Should have quietly fired the guy. Shutting up now is the best move

In reply to The Porkchop Express

The Porkchop Express said:

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DannyDuberstein said:

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He was gambling and he butchered some of his fall guy cover. Should have quietly fired the guy. Shutting up now is the best move

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Yep. The problem is his people did something counter to what the standard procedure for a pro athlete is. They should have gone to the Dodgers and told them the situation and the Dodgers would have gone full-court press to protect their investment. Their legal and marketing teams would have constructed an air-tight timeline that made poor old Ohtani the victim of a grifter who took advantage of his lack of knowledge about the US, and tossed that guy out with the trash.

The way they did it, it has now piqued the interest of people who love corruption and intrigue, and it's not going to go away. There's an army of digital journalists out there right now gearing up to make this their passion project, and eventually one of them will break it.

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Yep. There's a reason "it's not the crime, it's the cover-up" is a saying.

In reply to W

W said:

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sports betting is illegal in California

either Ohtani or the interpreter (or both) broke the law by placing bets with a Golden State bookie

the "pressing of charges" is a non-issue for the illegal betting activity

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And it's also really a non-issue as far as the feds go. They aren't going after bettors.

And yes, he screwed up by not shutting up in the first place and letting the professionals handle it. He's not making that same mistake.

It's literally not even in the headlines on ESPN's page anymore. It'll be a non-story in a month.

In reply to JCA1

JCA1 said:

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The Porkchop Express said:

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DannyDuberstein said:

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He was gambling and he butchered some of his fall guy cover. Should have quietly fired the guy. Shutting up now is the best move

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Yep. The problem is his people did something counter to what the standard procedure for a pro athlete is. They should have gone to the Dodgers and told them the situation and the Dodgers would have gone full-court press to protect their investment. Their legal and marketing teams would have constructed an air-tight timeline that made poor old Ohtani the victim of a grifter who took advantage of his lack of knowledge about the US, and tossed that guy out with the trash.

The way they did it, it has now piqued the interest of people who love corruption and intrigue, and it's not going to go away. There's an army of digital journalists out there right now gearing up to make this their passion project, and eventually one of them will break it.

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Yep. There's a reason "it's not the crime, it's the cover-up" is a saying.

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The cover up is always worse than the crime.

In reply to Proposition Joe

Proposition Joe said:

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W said:

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sports betting is illegal in California

either Ohtani or the interpreter (or both) broke the law by placing bets with a Golden State bookie

the "pressing of charges" is a non-issue for the illegal betting activity

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And it's also really a non-issue as far as the feds go. They aren't going after bettors.

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The feds won't go after him (unless they discover fraud in the money transfers) but they will uncover all the details associated with him. His potential "crime" is with his employer. He better be coming clean to the Dodgers and MLB. Well except for the fact that those groups would prefer he not give any answers. Their problem is it's out of their control. So he better come clean to them now. And the optics are initially he didn't. He's given two contradictory stories.

Michael Jordan didn't sit out two prime years of his career to try hitting curve balls for ****s and giggles.

In reply to Mathguy64 Can Ohtani play basketball?

In reply to JCA1

JCA1 said:

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Assuming he's telling the truth, I agree that he should take his time and do a forensic accounting before going to the authorities so he knows the full scope of what happened.

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This is total bunk. That's (the accounting) exactly what the detectives and especially federal agents are there to do. Besides, they won't take your word for it anyway.

Any delay in reporting a crime is either to hide the fact that there wasn't one or because they want the interpreter's cooperation in something (i.e. the interpreter placed the bets with Ohtani's permission or at his direction).

In reply to 91AggieLawyer

91AggieLawyer said:

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JCA1 said:

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Assuming he's telling the truth, I agree that he should take his time and do a forensic accounting before going to the authorities so he knows the full scope of what happened.

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This is total bunk. That's (the accounting) exactly what the detectives and especially federal agents are there to do. Besides, they won't take your word for it anyway.

Any delay in reporting a crime is either to hide the fact that there wasn't one or because they want the interpreter's cooperation in something (i.e. the interpreter placed the bets with Ohtani's permission or at his direction).

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Calm down dude. I was putting forth a hypothetical where he's telling the truth (which I personally doubt but was just going through the exercise).

Assuming for the sake of argument that Ohtani was the victim of a crime, we're talking about a multi-millionaire who probably has extremely complicated financial assets spread across countless institutions. But your professional advice is not to have your financial advisors (who have an intimate understanding of your financial arrangements) investigate but to turn over your whole financial portfolio to cops who probably have no idea what they're even looking while simultaneously giving up your financial privacy? That's your advice, counselor?

Nice article from the Ringer.

https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2024/3/23/24109952/shohei-ohtani-gambling-intepreter-mlb-investigation-biggest-questions