RC mightve been the best thing that happened to Texas, but to say that Sherman inherited a mess & its not his fault? Get your a$$ off your shoulders.

Fran had some pretty damn low points, but to give Sherman the alltime TD leader, an uquestionable leader & (hopeful) dual threat QB, a LIGHTS OUT back with 2 more in the pipeline? BEing an Ex-O-LINE COACH AND SUCK THIS BAD UP FRONT?? Retire right now before it gets worse Sherman.

Yes Fran brought us to an ABYSMAL def status, but he did about as good as anyone available couldve holding his own in recruiting against LSUberforehead & Mack Brown. We couldve turned up the heat on Franny enough to make him toss Darnell & hire someone serious about D.

you fail at life.

right. and we should keep Sherman.

Fran would have done better with this team than Sherman has.

Fran wouldn't have Fuller and wouldn't have moved RT to WR. I don't think he would have played McCoy at TE. He still would have had only 8 scholarship offensive linemen (all guards, no tackles) to fill 10 spots on the 2-deep before the fish arrived. Lane would still have put on weight through the offseason.

On defense, he wouldn't have had Hunter or Fredrick, for sure. He would have Pugh playing safety.

Not changing our offensive scheme would have helped early on, probably, but without an offensive line there is no way to tell what would have happened. But, given the above, I'm guessing that Fran would certainly not be doing better. Further, if history was any guide, he would have continued to whiff on recruiting Tackles and Linebackers, digging us further into a hole for next year.

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RC mightve been the best thing that happened to Texas

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What the heck does that mean?

RC gets way too much criticism here. No, he didn't quite get us where we wanted to be (though almost did a couple times), but he was still the winningest coach in our history and led us to some great times.

Oh, and his worst defense ever, the 2002 squad, still was a top 40 defense.

hiring franny = death penalty

now we have to recover

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Fran wouldn't have Fuller and wouldn't have moved RT to WR. I don't think he would have played McCoy at TE. He still would have had only 8 scholarship offensive linemen (all guards, no tackles) to fill 10 spots on the 2-deep before the fish arrived. Lane would still have put on weight through the offseason.

On defense, he wouldn't have had Hunter or Fredrick, for sure. He would have Pugh playing safety.

Not changing our offensive scheme would have helped early on, probably, but without an offensive line there is no way to tell what would have happened. But, given the above, I'm guessing that Fran would certainly not be doing better. Further, if history was any guide, he would have continued to whiff on recruiting Tackles and Linebackers, digging us further into a hole for next year.

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This is the most rational and well thought post I have read the last day and a half. Well done.

Fact of the matter is, it's true. Sherman has taken A LOT of risks, I mean who knew Jamie was going to be a good, maybe great college TE?

Fran would be playing Morrow, and Brown a WR and we would have 900 passing yards. Goodson would have 600 rushing yards and we would be 2-9, he would have beat Arky ST and Army.

I am amazed that people still say it is all because of RC that we are in the mess we are in.
WRONG!
RC did fine when he could keep his best coordinators together for a few years, but most found better money coaching elesewhere.
We have given 2 coaches the money that RC needed to keep coaches and it has not been a good product - yet.

Oh how I LONG for the woeful days of 7-5 & 8-4 now AND NEVER LESS THAN 6-6! Give me plain vanilla, but at least it was Blue Bell!

It was A&M's mistake to throw out RC with the bathwater. RC WAS Aggie football and we killed 2 birds with one stone.

I will always hope for the best with whatever coach we have, but I will alway believe that the "firing of RC Slocum" is what destroyed Aggie football.

[This message has been edited by LoudestWHOOP! (edited 11/17/2008 3:29p).]

I love RC, but the game had passed him by.

He was rapidly losing ground to other Big 12 programs and recruiting was suffering to the point that when we were not filling up classes nearing signing day, we would pilfer guys from Baylor.

RC did lose some good coordinators and assistants to other programs and the NFL, but he also had a very predictable habit of firing staff to lay blame for in-season failures.

That situation doesn't just sit with RC, but with Groff as well, but in today's Big 12 RC would not be having the success that the program expects.

Agree with Loudest....

[This message has been edited by andyv94 (edited 11/17/2008 3:38p).]

alias...how was he losing ground in recruiting he had two top ten classes when the new facilities were being completed right before he was fired......how the hell was he supposed to compete with tu when our facilities sucked at the time.

For starters, see my comment about Groff.

Secondly, RC was having real trouble getting guys on campus, or keeping them on campus. He was also losing more and more head to head battles against conference foes.

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This is the most rational and well thought post I have read the last day and a half. Well done.

Fact of the matter is, it's true. Sherman has taken A LOT of risks, I mean who knew Jamie was going to be a good, maybe great college TE?

Fran would be playing Morrow, and Brown a WR and we would have 900 passing yards. Goodson would have 600 rushing yards and we would be 2-9, he would have beat Arky ST and Army.

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Looking at 2-10 and quite possibly 1-11.

You're either green and growing or ripe and rotting. Anyone who thinks RC would have maintained the 7-5/6-6 type seasons he delivered toward the end is naive. Canning RC when you did saved his legacy because had he stayed he'd have had just as miserable a 2003 and beyond as Fran did. You guys need to let go of RC and move forward.

Balls you are demonstrating total lack of understanding about what wins football, lines and linebackers. He left it pretty damn screwed up and as others have said we would be even worse under him this year than we are now. He had his shot in '06 but screwed the pooch with bad endgame calls against tech, NU and OU. Even those coaches knew he was into Xmas giving early that year.

If we had stayed with RC and given him what FRan had in terms of salaries for assistants, facilities, degree programs, the whole nine yards, it's hard to say where we would be.

RC did have an offensive problem ... but, after he canned Dino Babers a few games into the 2002 season and promoted Sumlin, the offense really took off and showed promise. The defense, of course, became an issue. 2003 still would have been a hard year ... but if we stuck with RC, with Sumlin running the offense and the facilities and Byrne's financial support, could RC have rebuilt the defense? Who knows ... maybe, maybe not ... but with Sumlin running the offense I'd bet RC could've done a bit better than Fran / Torbush / Darnell on the defensive side of things.


"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world." The words of Jesus; John 16:33

RC was STALE. There was no excitement in your program. RC's recruiting was FINISHED. A change was necessary.

ssrtex -

Oh, I understand where you're coming from .... but perceptions can change. One of the perceptions regarding A&M and being stale was our plodding offense ... but with Sumlin that perception could easily have changed.

RC was still good defensively ... he had. in 2001 fielded a very stout defense shutting down Tech (12-0 loss) and Texas (21-7 loss) for the most part.

Anyway, it's all hypothecial and we will never know.

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world." The words of Jesus; John 16:33

There has to be some blame to lay on coaching, how much, aaahh who knows. I have talked to HS coaching staff I know that told me Fran was the absolute worst recruiter ever and that Sherman is doing much better. But we have a long way to go before catching up to Mac. One guy told me from a small town that Mack could run for mayor and win, that's how much time and attention he pays to recruiting. That's what Sherman needs to do if he plans to dig out of this. But IMO, TAMU football program has hit a new low in my lifetime.

RC wouldn't have been able to keep Sumlin. Look RC is a damn good football coach, but he wasn't going to be able to bring in the players to compete at the level your fans expect. Hell, the reason he was fired in the first place was largely due to fan unrest. There is no way he would have survived what was certain to be a losing season in 2003.

As a Texas fan I second guessed the firing of Akers for many years before I got to a certain level of acceptance about situation on the forty. Akers wasn't the man to navigate us through those times anymore than RC is your man right now (or over the last five years). Its time to move on. I'm sure even RC realizes that by now.

ssrtex -

Well, there is a good comparision to Fred Akers. In alot of ways the situations were very similar with the rise of A&M under Jackie and Oklahoma rebounding from a sluggish few years in the early 80's to win the MNC in 85 and play for it again a few years later.

Of course, the theoretical counter arguement would be Penn State and Joe Paterno who survived some lean years and rebuilt Penn State. The same things about staleness where said about him.

Anyway, it's all an unknown ... and you have a very good point about 2003 ... under RC we may not have been quite so bad ... but we would have been bad. Given the fan temperment at the time, it would have been hard for Bill Byrne to stick with RC and give him time to let it play out. Of course, even then ... maybe we wouldn;t have been stuck with Fran!

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world." The words of Jesus; John 16:33

Good point about Paterno. In the end, those of you who are grateful for RC's service to your program (and that should be all Aggies) should be glad RC was spared '03 and beyond. That so many of you guys long for his return is evidence that his legacy is very much in tact. Good for him. Pure class and, again, an excellent football coach.

One day in the not too distant future Mack Brown will be in the same situation. I hope he has the good sense to understand that eventually its just time for a change and steps aside before things get ugly.

dual threat QBs- one hurt in first game and finally out until last week, back-up has played with bad shoulder AND added knee injury in tech game

OL- no depth, all are playing hurt

Defense- no depth or speed- we started two walk-on DBs for the first two games

Bear Bryant could not coach many more wins out of this team. Arky State was a disaster- others played about as well as we could.

Our Turn , had it right

FRAN was our Death Penalty

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Balls you are demonstrating total lack of understanding about what wins football, lines and linebackers. He left it pretty damn screwed up

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And you conclude that I missed that how? Would you say RC left a great stock?? IN Fact, the Aggie world was bombarding RC's name when Fran took over. In case you forget, Torbush had one of the best defenses in the SEC--3rd in the nation in 2001. The guy didnt just show up in Aggieland and go comatose. I would say "WOW" just like his mug did after seeing just how much garbage RC's guys put on the field.

Did you read the SI article about our 77-0 loss? That article revealed that our program under RC yielded weight lifting records that were routinely being bestd by OUR basketball team. Yes--Melvin effin Watkins guys.

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some HS coaches I know said Fran was an absolutely awful recruiter

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There's a reason that High School coaches coach in High School. Yes your friends may be smart & good coaches & enjoy the kids, but anybody that didnt think that Fran was a better recruiter than RC is asinine. RC wouldnt have stood a chance against Mack any longer, while Fran actually kept some pretty good pipelines in DeSoto & Lufkin. Id say that the 2003 class was pretty sharp, as it did yield the Holiday bowl. Signing Goodson was a gigantic win as well. True, he whiffed on some OL guys, but Mack, Stoops, L$U are pretty tough co. The bottom line is Fran actually did hold his own around those 3 programs at a peak that became a perfect storm of sorts--a title for each in 7 yrs?? RC couldnt weather that.

Except for 98 it has not been good since we moved those dogs graves.

We need a regular voodoo ceremony to get this thing right before we ever hope to turn it around.

Alias - quit using fact to confuse the Sherman haters

(I am not Sherm's biggest fan, but some of this is over the top)

(edit: Referring to Alias' original post...though the others are good too)

[This message has been edited by Sugarwater (edited 11/17/2008 6:34p).]

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Look RC is a damn good football coach, but he wasn't going to be able to bring in the players to compete at the level your fans expect.

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And Fran was able to?

Canning RC for Fran was, at best, a sidestep.

Byronic Ag,

I completely agree. It was a bad hire, but that doesn't mean RC should have stayed.

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tex I really thought you had most of this issue in perspective, but not a great hire?? You have to concede that though his results & decisions were ridiculous at times, Fran was an EXCELLENT hire AT THE TIME.

Thats what noone seems to ever grasp when sifting through the ashes of our program & blaming Fran for leaving the cupboard bare. There was nada here for speed & strength, & Fran was a turnaround master at the time. The sports world applauded the hire for our program.

When we hired Sherman, they all went cross-eyed, & for good reason.

No, I agree. He was a tremendous hire. He just didn't pan out. My bad.

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Old Ag 74
posted 1:52p, 11/17/08



Fran would have done better with this team than Sherman has.

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Dude, we have the same name!

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Fran would have done better with this team than Sherman has.

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RC probably could have done better than Fran in 2003 as well. That doesn't mean it wasn't time for a change. Fran may hav edone better but you totally ignore that Sherman is trying to fix Fran's broken system without all of the proper tools. Fran failed. He had plenty of opportunity to show things were headed in the right direction and he failed. Sherman deserves a reasonable shot which includes next season.