The hill country rifles thread got me on this tangent (along with all the adult beverages tonight), so I apologize in advance. But, what is the real benefit to a custom rifle? This whole glass bedding and accurizing crap seems pretty prima donna and overrated to me. I have shot quite a few rifles in the past 15 years, however 15 years isn't alot compared so some of you old Ags. My rifle shooting got started later compared to my shotgun shooting. I will not lie, I have missed a couple shots in my days, but it was only while shooting with other people's rifles. I just really don't get it. It seems like a bull**** deal unless you are shooting 400-500+. I have shot Brownings, Remingtons, Savages, and Winchesters out of the box and they have all been solid.

What really got me on this tangent is that this "buddy" of mine at work has like 10 of these "custom rifles" and he is the same dewsh bag that doesn't have a hunting lease, yet pays $8000 a year to go on a 3-day, high-fenced, 100% guaranteed kill hunt in South Texas. Whenever I have to pick him up from his house for a business meeting, he always has to flaunt his "new custom rifle" to me that is in his gun cabinet in the garage. That SOB doesnt hunt elk or bear or caribou or mule deer. He hunts whitetail out of a blind with a 150 yard shot. WTF? Makes me want to ****ing puke. What am I missing here? Goodnight, shalom, etc.


[This message has been edited by txaggie02 (edited 8/20/2009 2:12a).]

Some people walk into a Ford dealership and buy a 250 truck and take it home. There might be a few things that weren't exactly like they wanted but they compromised.

The next guy can't find what he wants in a 250 and he orders one. He waits on the build but gets exactly what he wants.

They will both pull your boat down the highway....one may do it a little straighter.

Likewise you can take that truck on a hunt with Cowboy in the mountains for elk or you can take it to your new 15 acre deer lease in Doss.

[This message has been edited by sunchaser (edited 8/20/2009 6:16a).]

Daum 02, you need to let it out bro... all that pent up agression will kill you!

In defense of custom rifles and the improvement you listed, they DO make a difference at 500 yards. They make shots repeatable at that distance. They also have the potential to make ragged hole groups at 100 yards which is important if you are shooting for 1/4 minute of ANGLE. However, if your longest shot is 180 yards to the feeder and you are measuring precision in minute of DEER, you are right; it's overkill.

It's all in what you want to spend your money on. I love to by bright shiny reels and put them on nice fancy rods, but if I'm on the fish I can catch my limit with a $40 Walmart combo.

Different strokes for different folks, 02.

Seems like you have this type of beef fairly frequently.

LOL, I know exactly which dewshbag you're talking about!! I agree, unless you're taking some difficult shots, I don't see as much benefit in spending big time bucks on getting a custom rifle... but that's coming from a guy who has a surround sound system designed to match one of the sound processing labs @ Skywalker Ranch, so I really shouldn't be talking, should I?

I think the most important part of the post was just glossed over. WTF is this dillhole doing keeping his guns in the garage?

Its all in what you want

A bed with a comfortable mattress or a blanket and the ground....you can sleep both places

an old but servicable clunker or a new caddy both will get you where you are going

For the record I am a big fan of customized and acurratized(sp) Rifles.

Mass produced guns are inferior to custom for many reasons. First for liability concerns most stock triggers have a very strong pull weight. A little custom work can bring that down and make it easier to shoot accurately.

Guns produced primarily by machines at a factory can only achieve certain tolerances without hand fitting. Putting together and properly fitting parts of a gun requires a lot of skilled manpower and quickly adds to the cost so large producers of firearms skip as much of this as possible to keep prices down. A good gunsmith will polish and lap to smooth out rough spots, squaring up receivers to the barrel and bolt face, and fit certain parts to exactly match up with others they contact. All things that require hand work.

Custom guns are also tailored to the individual's preferences. Stocks can be fitted to match the shooters size and shooting style. Different weight and length barrels can be used to match shooting conditions and users preference. Lots of things can be changed around on a gun to make it better fit a certain role if you do a specific type of shooting.

Will any of this make you a better hunter, no. Will it help in very long range shots or in competition, yes. Rifles off the shelf will shoot better than most of the hunters out there are capable of and will easily make most shots the average hunter takes. Some things like lightening and smoothing out a trigger will make it easier for the novice to make accurate shots. At a certain point in skill level a shooter becomes aware of the limitations of their equipment and needs a bit of custom work to get a little more performance. Although many wrongly think spending a lot of money on a custom gun will make them a better shooter.

txaggie02- here's a hug bro. =)
I don't shoot 400-500 yds, so all my rifles serve my purpose. Actually, I for one don't know a sigle person that has a customized rifle...

[This message has been edited by lglidewell (edited 8/20/2009 8:48a).]

I think "the trigger is horrible on factory guns" is a lame excuse. Put a $150 Jard, Jewell or Timney on there, it is easy if you have any mechanical prowess. Modern factory rifles shoot FAR better than 99.5% of the people that shoot them, especially if those shooters are in hunting conditions (i.e. not on a bench with a gun vise, or bipod and sandbags). I'd like to see anyone who bought a custom rifle for hunting shoot a ragged hole group at 100 yds from a hunting position (standing, kneeling, prone, leaning on a tree, or shooting out of a stand)

FWIW: I am only talking about hunting; competitive marksmanship is a whole different animal.

But, people can spend their money on whatever they want.

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Put a $150 Jard, Jewell or Timney on there, it is easy if you have any mechanical prowess.

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At what point when you or anyone else starts working on a rifle does it become a "custom rifle?"
Will a different trigger and a new stock make it a custom?
What about just bedding?
How about some barrel work?

The rifle I choose to hunt with is an EdBrown....is it a custom rifle? Regardless of what I might want it's going to come with a McMillen stock...a Shilen barrel...a Jewell trigger and Talley rings.

[This message has been edited by sunchaser (edited 8/20/2009 11:06a).]

Why buy a Kimber when a Hi-Standard will get the job done?

It's personal preference, and in about 99.999% of the cases involving custom rifles - the end product is a much higher quality product than a run of the mill, off the shelf rifle.

Besides, it's not your money - why do you really care? I'm also betting you spend your money on something or other that we could all sit back and criticize you for.

'02,

Take 2-3 months and save up the $$ you spend at the local "establishments" or on purses, and you could probably afford a custom rifle and discover their attributes first hand.

This same comparison can be had with scopes. I have hunted with people that have 2000 dollar rifles, my WHOLE SETUP is worth less than 600 bucks, including a scope that is nearly 40 years old.

It puts a bullet in the same target. Its all about how you use it. In standard run of the mill situations either is more than adequate, but when you start getting into longer shots, lower light, etc, etc...well, those bells and whistles will go a lot farther.

In my experience, deer camps are usually just a place for sword fighting contests. Everyone has to have a bigger **** than the next guy, but at the end of the day, they all leave a similar sized pool of piss on the floor.

All that fancyness has a place, but for your buddy, its just another contest.

I think the guys I hunt with have a whole lot less penus envy....

Sort of reminds me of some of my wife's friends. My wife's last purse she bought was about five years ago. Cost around $100. She's used it, and only it, for five years and doesn't see the need for a new one. Still looks great. But her friends are constantly getting $500, $600, $700+ purses each and every year. My wife's purse carries her wallet, phone, and assorted junk just as good as her friends. Seems like such a waste. And I really think they get those purses just to show them off to their friends. But my wife and I could care less. To each his own and we spend our extra income on things we enjoy. And we don't waste time pissing and moaning about how other people spend their money.

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I'd like to see anyone who bought a custom rifle for hunting shoot a ragged hole group at 100 yds from a hunting position

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I never said you could or I could. My point is THE RIFLE can- and for some people, maybe taking one variable out of the equation is worth some $$$.

dp

[This message has been edited by Centerpole90 (edited 8/20/2009 11:34a).]

Maybe not kneeling or standing, but prone and out of the blind, I'd be willing to demonstrate how to shoot ragged holes.

and tree limbs

Out of the box factory and off the shelf ammo?

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Different strokes for different folks, 02.

Seems like you have this type of beef fairly frequently.

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I don't have a beef with anything. I am asking because I don't understand it. You obviously don't either because you added nothing of substance to the conversation, unlike everyone else that posted on the thread and helped explain it. It all just seems like a big peeter pulling contest to see who can have the "coolest" rifle and the 1-2 folks that I know that have custom guns are complete tools themselves. I guess that is how alot of things in life are though...


Master, he has a very large gun safe in his garage that is bolted down to the slab. I don't even think this gun case could fit through the door.

I spent 8 years in the USMC. We qualified with standard M16A2s and A4s. We hit human size targets at 500 meters with iron sights as part of the qualification. I'm not a good shot, but eventually earned my expert badge. I personally don't see the need for a custom rifle, but its all about what you want to spend your money on. I did a seven month tour in the anbar. The only acessory on my A2 was an M203. I have never seen the need for a bunch of crazy crap on an AR platform.

That being said. If the guy wants to drop the cash on a rifle that shoots better than he does who cares? If I guy want to make a custom AR with 38 lbs of gear bolted to it, who cares?

When it comes to guns I buy what I want and watch what others buy. Some of em crack me up.

BTW, I just bought a stainless mini30 because I rarely kill hogs at over 100 yards.

[This message has been edited by awesome12atm (edited 8/20/2009 11:56a).]

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Master, he has a very large gun safe in his garage that is bolted down to the slab. I don't even think this gun case could fit through the door.

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Shoulda built the house around the safe!

For the type of hunting you said he does, the cheapest rifle/scope combo walmart sells would get the job done. He simply has the money and wants something better. maybe it's to stroke his ego and impress his friends....who knows. I have a couple of custom rifles, but I do a lot of long range shooting and they shoot very well. On the other hand I also have 2 or 3 factory rifles that shoot very well at distance also. There are many out if the box factory rifles these days that will shoot really good.

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Out of the box factory and off the shelf ammo?

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Who cares? Lots of people reload for cost and accuracy. There is plenty of accurizing that can be done by tailoring the load to the gun.

Why build a computer when I can get a dell for the same or less? Because I enjoy selecting the components to work together to meet my needs and goals.

I shoot benchrest so the levels of precision required are slightly different, but I'd much rather have a gun that I know can outshoot me. It drives me to improve my technique to get the most out of the gun.

For many people it is probably just a pissing contest to see who can die with the most toys.

On another note... who cares? When he shows you the gun, appreciate the workmanship that went into it and the capabilities it has. Making threads like this only makes you seem jealous.

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Maybe not kneeling or standing, but prone and out of the blind, I'd be willing to demonstrate how to shoot ragged holes.

...

and tree limbs

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Ho-lee s***! Now THAT was funny!

[This message has been edited by Sean98 (edited 8/20/2009 12:50p).]

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see who can die with the most toys

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I thought that was the goal. Did someone change the rules??

Custom rifles worth it? For competition yes. For hunting, No. Unless you just have the money...

For my 35th birthday I had Hill Country build me my first and only "custom" rifle. Its a beaut too! It was built entirely to my specifications...I had been thinking about that rifle for 10 years...

Started out as a Winchester Model 70 Classic Super Grade. From there we put on a Lilja barrel in .270 Weatherby. The barrel is round to octagon AND tapered. Trued and blue printed the action, alluminum piller bedded the action, custom tuned Timney trigger and a new pistol grip cap engraved with my initials. Put a Zeiss on it too in Warne QD mounts.

I think the rifle, before the scope, was about $3400 (and thats eight years ago before they got famous and raised their prices). Looks it too. When I pull it out on a hunt, it is a show stopper.

Looking back on it, its a masterpiece. But...

I also dont hunt with it much because I dont want to get it torn up. Its also heavier than I imagined it would be. My choice of caliber means I can hunt almost anything, anywhere with it...but...Weatherby's are a lot of things including fast and lethal, but tack driving accurate aint one of them. So all that high dollar barrel steel dont do much good.

I'll never sell it. But in retrospect there are six or seven rifles I could have in its place, and all with nice, tuned triggers.

Be careful what you wish for...

[This message has been edited by Puryear Playboy (edited 8/20/2009 1:10p).]

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Making threads like this only makes you seem jealous.

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Dude, give me a break. I started a thread asking for opinions. I also clearly stated in my original post that I don't understand the whole custom rifles stuff for shooting within 300 yards, so I asked for some information. I have absolutely zero need/want for a custom rifle. But I guess that somehow makes me jealous. Seems like I stepped on someone's toes.

Here’s my take on it.

I like guns. Lots of them. If it isn’t obvious enough by now, you haven’t been on here long enough. Alot of the ones I own do the exact same thing, and I can’t shoot more than one of them at once. So you could claim that I am indulging in excess and swordfighting.

That being said, I like learning about them (mechanically and historically, from my C&R’s through the M1/M14 and AR’s) and building them (in the case of my AR’s and M-14’s). I also look at them as an investment, although I really don’t plan on selling them. However, if I ever need to, I’ve collected or built firearms that will hold or gain in value, and are unique in some way that will make them more desirable to a potential buyer.

This also holds true with factory vs. custom rifles. Try selling a factory rifle, and I guarantee you are going to take a loss. Sell a rifle built by Hill Country, Sisk, etc., with the documentation to prove it, and you will at worst break even.

Sure, a factory rifle will shoot lights out on occasion, but a custom rifle has the added edge of the little tweaks that add up to greater accuracy, at both distance and close up. I’ve witnessed numerous instances of a horrible trigger pull causing someone to miss a shot at 100 yards, myself included. My go to deer rifle is my grandfathers 1970’s Remington 700 .270 with a Weaver K4 and walnut stock. It is straight factory, besides the trigger that I tweaked myself, and I’ve shot multiple deer with it at 300+ yards; I just know how to use it.

I’ve currently got a stripped FN SPR action (basically a short action Winchester Model 70) that I want to have built up into a mountain style rifle in either .308 or .260, since I tend to drop into a lot of crazy places while hunting and could use a light rifle with a tough synthetic stock. .308 for commonality of ballistics with the M-14’s or .260 for the flatness/range. Haven’t made my mind up yet. Yes, there are Kimbers that already fit that bill, but by going the custom route and paying just a little bit more, I can have it built exactly as I want it. And by using the Winchester action, I don’t have to worry about unique parts, as I would if I were using one of the plethora of custom built actions that are available (Stiller, McMillan, etc.).

So yes, some people do it to flaunt their swords. But others do it as investment, because they enjoy it, or just because they can. And it’s actually fun going through the build process (wait until retro BRD bites you). Not to mention the fact of nailing a 500+ yard cold bore shot.

[This message has been edited by Log (edited 8/20/2009 1:19p).]

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What really got me on this tangent is that this "buddy" of mine at work has like 10 of these "custom rifles" and he is the same dewsh bag that doesn't have a hunting lease, yet pays $8000 a year to go on a 3-day, high-fenced, 100% guaranteed kill hunt in South Texas. Whenever I have to pick him up from his house for a business meeting, he always has to flaunt his "new custom rifle" to me that is in his gun cabinet in the garage. That SOB doesnt hunt elk or bear or caribou or mule deer. He hunts whitetail out of a blind with a 150 yard shot. WTF? Makes me want to ****ing puke.

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Whatever the reality of your feelings is... this doesn't sound like "I just don't get it."

You have a personal issue with this guy and his spending on his hunting trip and his guns is apparently part of it... what does that sound like to you?

Once again, why do you care so much about how this guy spends his money? Maybe he just likes to spend his money on that. Some people buy electronics that they don't need, some people spend money on hookers and blow, this guy wastes it on rifles he doesn't need. What do you waste your money on?

If you want to know why people spend money on custom rifles, just ask that. You don't need to throw in an anecdote about this "dewsh bag" that "makes you want to puke."

All you need to ask is "Why do hunters spend money on custom rifles when it doesn't seems like it isn't worth it?"

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Dude, give me a break. I started a thread asking for opinions. I also clearly stated in my original post that I don't understand the whole custom rifles stuff for shooting within 300 yards, so I asked for some information. I have absolutely zero need/want for a custom rifle. But I guess that somehow makes me jealous. Seems like I stepped on someone's toes.

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Hate to break it to you kiddo, but the manner in which you asked your question came off as somebody either pissed off, jealous, or a combination of the two.

Asking a question is one thing, and I bet had you left out the "******'s" and other descriptive terms and pronouns and simply asked something along these lines:

"What is the point of a custom rifle? Are they really that much better? Are they really worth the extra money?"

...you would have gotten quite a bit more cordial responses. But when you toss in how you don't understand why a ****** would have one, etc, etc, etc. - yeah, you rile up some feathers and come off as somebody with an axe to grind.

I'd also point out that based on your response quoted above, if you have anything other than a single shot New England Pardner, then you are pretty hypocritical, because when you get down to it - you don't NEED a bolt action with a scope to shoot within 300 yards from a blind with a feeder sitting at a known distance away. Those extra shells, the bolt action, the scope - hell, they are just bells and whistles now aren't they?

Settle down Nancy. Your going to give yourself a stroke reading into things too far.

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I spent 8 years in the USMC. We qualified with standard M16A2s and A4s. We hit human size targets at 500 meters with iron sights as part of the qualification. I'm not a good shot, but eventually earned my expert badge. I personally don't see the need for a custom rifle, but its all about what you want to spend your money on.

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I'm completely on board with you on the AR platform - mine is as plane jane as they come (only added a red dot sight to it - and a cheap Bushnell Trophy one at that)....

....but, I bet your scout sniper buddies in the Corps would tell you something different about custom made rifles. And as a grunt, I bet you'd much rather one of them have a weapon that he is married to because it was built for him and tuned for his round over a run of the mill M700, and one that he KNOWS he can plant Charlie with at 700 meters over one that he THINKS he can plant Charlie with at 700 meters. Especially when that 168 grain projectile is the difference between you coming home to a happy family, or coming home draped in an American flag. Just a thought anyway.