We sure could use him
Was Sherman the reason we had such a good O-line in 2012?
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Last: 8 days ago by monarch
Yes.
For all his faults Sherman could identify and develop talent pretty well. Especially along the lines.
I'd say genetics probably had more to do with it.
Identifying the top five prospects is not hard. Coach Sherman consistently would get one to sign with the Ags
JFF had iirc 3 NFL first round picks blocking for him
JFF had iirc 3 NFL first round picks blocking for him
Compare how he developed those guys to guys on our current roster or recent rosters that are similar rated recruits who regressed. You cannot discount what he did with the line while he was coaching here. He not only landed them as recruits, but they got better while here and he developed them into 1st round draft picks.
Yep, it wasn't about landing the top recruits. That great OL was made up of four 4-stars (Matthews, Joekel, Lewis, Ogbuehi) and a 2 star (Harrison, who ended up being drafted in the 5th round). He was great at identifying talent and developing it. As said.
And yet…most posters here were fine with him by the time he was unceremoniously dismissed and given an opportunity by Bill Byrne to hold a press conference and defend his tenure.
Presciently neither Sumlin nor Fisher were offered a similar opportunity…
Presciently neither Sumlin nor Fisher were offered a similar opportunity…
He was able to sign elite talent at the OL and then he and the OL coach did a great job in coaching them up to play elite. It seemed obvious to anyone with a football IQ that Joekel and Matthews were 5 star elite talent from day 1 and Ced O was too. Sherman deserves credit for getting those guys to sign with him and he deserves credit for developing them too.
One differentiator Sherm had with the OL was he got them ready fast. They were good by year 2 and in some cases year 1.
Johnny also made their job easier in 2012. His scrambling ability forced defenses to "Mush rush" which is way easier for the OL.
Johnny also made their job easier in 2012. His scrambling ability forced defenses to "Mush rush" which is way easier for the OL.
Also notable:
Sherman was not a drunkard who got wasted with his players.
Or an egomaniac who got a massively overvalued contract with no penalties for underperformance.
Sherman was not a drunkard who got wasted with his players.
Or an egomaniac who got a massively overvalued contract with no penalties for underperformance.
I've been saying for a while now: Sherman is the best coach we've had in this century. If he'd have gotten another year, he'd have probably earned many more. His second half collapse were bad, but you can't deny that he built a monster of a team.
Sherman's issue was much the same as Jimbo's in that he did not want to give up control of his offense. And the way he thought about calling offense hindered him from seeing the game as it played out. Many (if not all) of the 2nd half collapses in 2011 had to do with him getting away from what was shredding the opponent in the 1st half. Heard his trust in players to get their work in without being monitored and tracked about it was a bit much as well. He ran it like an NFL team in that manner iirc.
His talent eval and development was awesome.
His talent eval and development was awesome.
I have always thought that might not be the case because I am not sure he would have started Johnny in 2012 because of his NFL approach, but now I think that might have been the best thing for Johnny and us in the long term.Get Off My Lawn said:
I've been saying for a while now: Sherman is the best coach we've had in this century. If he'd have gotten another year, he'd have probably earned many more. His second half collapse were bad, but you can't deny that he built a monster of a team.
His offense was beautful and he knew how to develop players that had potential and he knew how to develop players that already had that "it" factor, the OL, Fuller, Von, Cyrus. He was arguably the best coach in terms of play calling and design and player development. His roster building on defense was not great though, his S&C program was poorly managed leading to the collapses, and his in game management was poor.Get Off My Lawn said:
I've been saying for a while now: Sherman is the best coach we've had in this century. If he'd have gotten another year, he'd have probably earned many more. His second half collapse were bad, but you can't deny that he built a monster of a team.
Coaches that cant manage games dont all sudden change. There is more to being a college football head coach than play design & play calling and recruiting/development; managing all the pieces is where the good become great. In a lot of ways he and Jimbo were very similar. Could get talent but couldn't manage the program and couldn't manage games.
Under sherm we would also end up with gaping talent holes at certain positions, especially along the defense.
Sherman might not have even been fired if the 2011 team hadnt had the most infuriating season in the history of football.
We had to walk out of our 4th game of the year seeing them blow a second half lead, and oh by the way its Texas and its the last time we're playing them, plus we blew a 5th game on the road too. He probably could have gone normal 8-4 no problem
We had to walk out of our 4th game of the year seeing them blow a second half lead, and oh by the way its Texas and its the last time we're playing them, plus we blew a 5th game on the road too. He probably could have gone normal 8-4 no problem
Should have gone 11-1 with the lone loss being at OU. We led every other game by double digits. The arky loss was insane. The Texas loss was some of the worst coaching I have ever seen. Texas literally could not get past their own 30 yard line as they continued to punt. All he had to do was keep calling the same runs and move the pocket and we keep kicking field goals then pinning them with the kick off at 20. We would have won that game going away. Instead he decided to air it out because he is up 13-0 and the rest is history. What was more infuriating is 2 days later Jimbo did exactly what I said Sherman should have done when FSU played a talented but bad offense in Florida, pinning them deep every possession and taking points where he could and FSU ended up winning 21-7. It was like watching an alternate reality of what should have happened.JJxvi said:
Sherman might not have even been fired if the 2011 team hadnt had the most infuriating season in the history of football.
We had to walk out of our 4th game of the year seeing them blow a second half lead, and oh by the way its Texas and its the last time we're playing them, plus we blew a 5th game on the road too. He probably could have gone normal 8-4 no problem
I agree, Sherman was likely the best coach we've had this century this side of RC. The Achilles heel in 2011 was lack of conditioning in my mind but also think game management, especially against tu, was suspect. For those that discount his ability to recruit and develop an OL, you're ignoring what he did as an assistant to RC. We always had good OLs when he was here.
problem was he couldn't translate all of the line talent into wins.AgBQ-00 said:
Compare how he developed those guys to guys on our current roster or recent rosters that are similar rated recruits who regressed. You cannot discount what he did with the line while he was coaching here. He not only landed them as recruits, but they got better while here and he developed them into 1st round draft picks.
Bring him back as recruiting analyst on offensive side of the ball
He recruited really good players on offense that were all highly rated reruicts. Most of those OL had offers everywhere, C-Mike was a 5 star, Cyrus a 4 star, Fuller a 4 star. Tannehill was an absolute freak athlete. Swope ran a 4.3. It's not like he had a roster full of spares with no offers. His development process is what he was best at., if coaches could harness the way he had his staff develop talent then look out. That said, plenty of coaches develop elite talent including Jimbo, he just didnt do it here.AgDad121619 said:problem was he couldn't translate all of the line talent into wins.AgBQ-00 said:
Compare how he developed those guys to guys on our current roster or recent rosters that are similar rated recruits who regressed. You cannot discount what he did with the line while he was coaching here. He not only landed them as recruits, but they got better while here and he developed them into 1st round draft picks.
Bring him back as recruiting analyst on offensive side of the ball
Divining Rod said:
Yep, it wasn't about landing the top recruits. That great OL was made up of four 4-stars (Matthews, Joekel, Lewis, Ogbuehi) and a 2 star (Harrison, who ended up being drafted in the 5th round). He was great at identifying talent and developing it. As said.
Yep
Sherman was a former oline coach: oline was his specialty
He did a great job bringing in Oline talent and also developing it
To say otherwise is just disingenuous
Yes, to the OPs question.
Nothing much more to add. The offense was good.
He finally had a good DC in DeRuyter. I thought things were looking good. He needed a little time to make it happen.
Sherman built a program from nothing.
Sherman listened to Rossley and brought in Manziel.
Mike's "I got fired" speech at A&M showed him to be a class act and gentleman.
I like Mike. Things would have been better if he had not been fired versus the follow on hire. He was a leader and example to his players.
Edit to add:
Sherman was willing to be paid LESS to have more $ available for assistant coaches.
Nothing much more to add. The offense was good.
He finally had a good DC in DeRuyter. I thought things were looking good. He needed a little time to make it happen.
Sherman built a program from nothing.
Sherman listened to Rossley and brought in Manziel.
Mike's "I got fired" speech at A&M showed him to be a class act and gentleman.
I like Mike. Things would have been better if he had not been fired versus the follow on hire. He was a leader and example to his players.
Edit to add:
Sherman was willing to be paid LESS to have more $ available for assistant coaches.
I'm guessing you got your coaches who start with S confused.Triple-T said:
Also notable:
Sherman was not a drunkard who got wasted with his players.
Or an egomaniac who got a massively overvalued contract with no penalties for underperformance.
And what coach has a contract for "underperformance"?
Go ask Hunter Goodwin what he thought of Sherman. As I recall, Hunter basically gave Sherman all the credit for developing him into an NFL caliber OL.
Yup, as much as I liked Sherman, you can't lose to that tu team in the last game of the series when they were average at best.JJxvi said:
Sherman might not have even been fired if the 2011 team hadnt had the most infuriating season in the history of football.
We had to walk out of our 4th game of the year seeing them blow a second half lead, and oh by the way its Texas and its the last time we're playing them, plus we blew a 5th game on the road too. He probably could have gone normal 8-4 no problem
If $$$ Bill wasn't so fire happy and he would have let Sherman stay another year or two A&M would have shown remarkable progress. Fran left Sherman NOTHING!!!!WhiteYaloo said:
We sure could use him
I'll never forget him not running J-Train in the redzone against OU.
harge57 said:
Under sherm we would also end up with gaping talent holes at certain positions, especially along the defense.
Same for the 2 coaches that followed him
The 2nd half collapse may have been S&C, but I attributed it more to the bend-but-don't-break approach combined with asymmetry in halftime adjustments (because hey - keep doing what works!)
Yes those are both on the coach - but likely holdovers from NFL paradigm which were going to take some growing pains to unlearn.
Yes those are both on the coach - but likely holdovers from NFL paradigm which were going to take some growing pains to unlearn.
VP at Pierce and Pierce said:Should have gone 11-1 with the lone loss being at OU. We led every other game by double digits. The arky loss was insane. The Texas loss was some of the worst coaching I have ever seen. Texas literally could not get past their own 30 yard line as they continued to punt. All he had to do was keep calling the same runs and move the pocket and we keep kicking field goals then pinning them with the kick off at 20. We would have won that game going away. Instead he decided to air it out because he is up 13-0 and the rest is history. What was more infuriating is 2 days later Jimbo did exactly what I said Sherman should have done when FSU played a talented but bad offense in Florida, pinning them deep every possession and taking points where he could and FSU ended up winning 21-7. It was like watching an alternate reality of what should have happened.JJxvi said:
Sherman might not have even been fired if the 2011 team hadnt had the most infuriating season in the history of football.
We had to walk out of our 4th game of the year seeing them blow a second half lead, and oh by the way its Texas and its the last time we're playing them, plus we blew a 5th game on the road too. He probably could have gone normal 8-4 no problem
How does this keeping happening to us
oh boy, need some cleanup on this thread...
at the o-line position...there is no doubt that Sherman was a supreme recruiter and developer of players. Also very good at WR
but there are other positions on the field...such as DL, LB, and DB...and recruiting at those positions was not good. Remember that Von was a Fran recruit. Sumlin and Mark Synder did a nice job with the players they inherited on defense in 2012. Of course having a super-high-powered offense greatly helped the 2012 defense
Sherman finished with a 25-25 record which is also not good...and which is also the bottomline for a coach
at the o-line position...there is no doubt that Sherman was a supreme recruiter and developer of players. Also very good at WR
but there are other positions on the field...such as DL, LB, and DB...and recruiting at those positions was not good. Remember that Von was a Fran recruit. Sumlin and Mark Synder did a nice job with the players they inherited on defense in 2012. Of course having a super-high-powered offense greatly helped the 2012 defense
Sherman finished with a 25-25 record which is also not good...and which is also the bottomline for a coach
Sherman does deserve great credit for bringing the A&M offense out of the stone age...and bringing the passing game to College Station
trying to win games by running the ball, controlling the clock, and playing good defense was not going to work in the Big 12
trying to win games by running the ball, controlling the clock, and playing good defense was not going to work in the Big 12
Get Off My Lawn said:
I've been saying for a while now: Sherman is the best coach we've had in this century. If he'd have gotten another year, he'd have probably earned many more. His second half collapse were bad, but you can't deny that he built a monster of a team.
I agree. Sherman's problem at A&M was that he came from the NFL, which in those days was a low scoring league. NFL coaches would often sit on low point leads by college standards and win games. He was just starting to figure that out and address it around the time he was fired. Had even brought in some outside consultants to help him design his game plans around the high scoring college game IIRC.
He also recruited the best players he could that, as he said, WANT to play for Texas A&M.
If we had given him another few years we would have probably been well rewarded IMHO.
Fire away.
Shermans best run was when he did just this with Tannehill. Once he had trust in Tannehill , he went back to passing 40 times a game and promptly went 6-6.W said:
Sherman does deserve great credit for bringing the A&M offense out of the stone age...and bringing the passing game to College Station
trying to win games by running the ball, controlling the clock, and playing good defense was not going to work in the Big 12
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