My younger brother's oldest son has been working in Communist China for the past 8 years. Met a girl and has returned to Texas to marry her.

The nephew called me yesterday and asked if the bride-to-be, her sister, and brother could come out to my place to shoot guns - you know - since they can't do that in Communist China. Releases of Liability will be signed!

Insert "What? Me Worry?" gif here...

Serious question- because I ain't a lawyer and have a curious mind-

Would a release of liability do any actual good in a situation like this? It's not like this is a public facility or these are complete strangers (they are guests of family).

So, if there was something negligent to happen, I wouldn't think a simple release of liability would prevent the owner from litigation if they were at fault.
If an accident happens and there is no negligence/fault of the owner, I wouldn't think a release would offer them any additional protection than a good defense would achieve. And a signed release doesn't prevent a suit, correct? So you could still need to defend yourself even with a release.

Maybe I'm super off, which is why I am asking those who actually know.

In any case- OP, I hope you are able to show them a hospitable, safe, and fun time as you expand your family. What a blessing that is!!!!

Tannerite will make the day.!

confucius_ag said:

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But don't give them any bbq---they won't leave..

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Personal experience?

First. I am not an attorney and can only expound on our experiences. We did hunts at our ranch. …. pretty much 90% with firearms. I also had guest and friends and family that hunted and shot sporting clays, five stand, and target shooting on our land. We had various law enforcement agencies use our land for training and we hosted CCL classes and had an approved DPS range number certification for those classes.
I searched out an attorney that had a ranch and did some similar activities on his land at that time. He put together a detailed, multi page hold harmless/ release of liability for us. He was very adamant that this was our first line of protection/defense but that we still could be sued and highly suggested that we obtain a firearm use specific policy.
He guided us to obtain a specialized liability policy specifically outlying the firearm use on our property. He also made us aware that the standard homeowner and typical "umbrella" policies would do little in a firearm accident on our property.
I will add that we had examples of companies and agents who told us we would be covered with the standard policies when actually we were not.
The actual policy was very expensive…it involved some specific underwriting….and we let the attorney handle it as he was doing the same on his place… and we trusted him and figured if it was good enough for him it would be good enough for us.
We loved our place and the enjoyment we had sharing it with folks and doing the activities….. but we were greatly relieved when we sold it to not have the liability nor the tremendous expense for the insurance….. we decided, in the end, it just was not worth the worry, expense and risk.

I will caution anyone that is told by their insurance company or agent that they are covered for any firearm related activity on their land to get it in writing from a upper management and authority …and have a knowledgeable attorney in that field to examine it closely.

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AggieT said:

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confucius_ag said:

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But don't give them any bbq---they won't leave..

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Username checks out.

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lazuras_dc said:

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cupofjoe04 said:

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Serious question- because I ain't a lawyer and have a curious mind-

Would a release of liability do any actual good in a situation like this? It's not like this is a public facility or these are complete strangers (they are guests of family).

So, if there was something negligent to happen, I wouldn't think a simple release of liability would prevent the owner from litigation if they were at fault.
If an accident happens and there is no negligence/fault of the owner, I wouldn't think a release would offer them any additional protection than a good defense would achieve. And a signed release doesn't prevent a suit, correct? So you could still need to defend yourself even with a release.

Maybe I'm super off, which is why I am asking those who actually know.

In any case- OP, I hope you are able to show them a hospitable, safe, and fun time as you expand your family. What a blessing that is!!!!

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Im not attorney either but you can't release gross negligence. But to prove negligence would usually mean that property owner knew there was an unsafe area that he didn't fix and still brought them out there to that. But the liability release should still protect from accidents and inattention: slip and fall type stuff.

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Also - half the battle is stopping these cases before they start. If someone thinks they have released all liability, then they don't bother picking up the phone to call that atty. Then, regardless of whether you have an actual release or not, you've achieved your objective, which is not to get sued for something that's not your fault.

https://agrilife.org/texasaglaw/2015/03/23/texas-landowner-liability-part-iii-recreational-use-statute/

Just don't be grossly negligent. I'm sure you already have a liability policy as described above.

Texas has your back.

Oof…this is a super mega hard pass for me until I have a few years of acquantance. Good luck!

We can go to the gun range, or something of the sort, but no thanks on the ranch.

schmellba99 said:

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Do some of you wake up in the morning and do nothing but think about liability and what if's all day long?

I've never seen so much wringing of hands over a what if scenario than I have on this board with most every subject.

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It's just another form of prepping for the worst.

Animal Eight 84 said:

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Do her right and ensure she starts off on a tannerite filled target set on top of a gallon jug of gasoline.

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Now this is how it's done … my young nephews love tannerite at Christmas out at the farm

ROR!

lazuras_dc said:

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cupofjoe04 said:

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Serious question- because I ain't a lawyer and have a curious mind-

Would a release of liability do any actual good in a situation like this? It's not like this is a public facility or these are complete strangers (they are guests of family).

So, if there was something negligent to happen, I wouldn't think a simple release of liability would prevent the owner from litigation if they were at fault.
If an accident happens and there is no negligence/fault of the owner, I wouldn't think a release would offer them any additional protection than a good defense would achieve. And a signed release doesn't prevent a suit, correct? So you could still need to defend yourself even with a release.

Maybe I'm super off, which is why I am asking those who actually know.

In any case- OP, I hope you are able to show them a hospitable, safe, and fun time as you expand your family. What a blessing that is!!!!

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Im not attorney either but you can't release gross negligence. But to prove negligence would usually mean that property owner knew there was an unsafe area that he didn't fix and still brought them out there to that. But the liability release should still protect from accidents and inattention: slip and fall type stuff.

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Go hire an attorney that handles land practice to advise you on any release. Also, check and make sure you have or can get liability coverage from your insurance agent. Good luck.

the donger need food!

Go take that kid out and let him shoot. It's not like you are going to turn him loose unsupervised with an AR15 with a 30 round mag. Start him with a .22 until he is comfortable and let him move up from there. Shoot a watermelon in front of him and tell him the same thing happens to human head to emphasize muzzle control. Let him know if he fires too high and misses the barrier behind the target the bullet can travel further than the Great Wall of China is long and will do the same thing on impact if it happens to hit something.

confucius_ag said:

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But don't give them any bbq---they won't leave..

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Just let the dogs lick the plates clean after they've eaten, then immediately put them back on the shelves and say there all clean now. They'll leave!

We took a bunch of guys from India shooting one time for a company outing when I was in software consulting. They had a literal blast and talked about it for months after. We shot pistols, rifles, and shotguns. The suppressed AR was a huge hit. It was an amazing time and their eyes were like saucers for most of it, as well as huge grins. We had 3 or 4 ex military guys in the group and a few others like myself that have been around guns all our life, and we basically had one of us stand next to each of them the whole time they held a gun. Kind of like a chaperone. We had a good safety mtg before we started, and only 1 or 2 people on the firing line at a time. The others got to learn to load mags while they watched!!

It worked out well, and I would do it again. Now, my in-laws are an entirely different matter, being slightly isane. (Look who they let into their family after all, as proof!!!!) I am still dodging taking them shooting, after 30 years. LOL

lazuras_dc said:

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cupofjoe04 said:

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Serious question- because I ain't a lawyer and have a curious mind-

Would a release of liability do any actual good in a situation like this? It's not like this is a public facility or these are complete strangers (they are guests of family).

So, if there was something negligent to happen, I wouldn't think a simple release of liability would prevent the owner from litigation if they were at fault.
If an accident happens and there is no negligence/fault of the owner, I wouldn't think a release would offer them any additional protection than a good defense would achieve. And a signed release doesn't prevent a suit, correct? So you could still need to defend yourself even with a release.

Maybe I'm super off, which is why I am asking those who actually know.

In any case- OP, I hope you are able to show them a hospitable, safe, and fun time as you expand your family. What a blessing that is!!!!

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Im not attorney either but you can't release gross negligence. But to prove negligence would usually mean that property owner knew there was an unsafe area that he didn't fix and still brought them out there to that. But the liability release should still protect from accidents and inattention: slip and fall type stuff.

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Not necessarily true. I'm not going to delve into a full research memo on this, but this article summarizes Texas release case law in general, including that for gross negligence. The Texas Supreme Court did not take this particular case on appeal. I don't know if they have since heard and ruled on a similar case since, according to the article, there is a split among Texas Courts of Appeals on the gross negligence issue. Even then, it isn't clear (as the article suggests) as to whether that split concerns an express statement in the release covering gross negligence or whether, as a matter of policy, releases on gross negligence are out. Each court could be different in that respect, and they could easily change over a short period of time as similar cases come through since they hear any matter appealed that they have jurisdiction of. One would need to hire an attorney to find out for sure.

https://agrilife.org/texasaglaw/2019/01/14/texas-case-offers-good-analysis-of-enforceability-of-liability-release/

I'm not trying to call you out here, but it would be better if non-attorneys did not make definitive statements on the law. Hell, I try hard not to on here and I've been practicing as long or longer than many attorneys on this forum have. I've made some wrong calls, especially without going DEEP into ALL the research or while commenting in areas I haven't had a sound background in. Plus, you never know when one or two facts, no matter how small, might change the analysis of any matter completely.