I don't think Kennedy sucked but even when we made the S16 I didn't feel like we got everything out of those teams. I think success on the court is a work in progress for Buzz but we've reached a sustainable level to build on to reach the next level. Right now we're about where we were with Turgeon except with him we didn't progress any further.
Incredible post game locker room speech from Buzz
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Last: 1 mo ago by Method Man
So does buzz only recruit devout believers?
Enjoyed the video. Buzz is a good coach and the right coach for Texas A&M. More importantly, he is a great leader who truly cares for each and every player he recruits and each member of his staff.
t - cam said:W said:
Buzz vs. Kennedy
is a classic standard deviation argument
Kennedy had bad teams and great teams -- high standard deviation
Buzz has had good teams and very good teams -- low standard deviation
take your pick
He had 1 great team and a decent team that had a lights out game against a 2 seed.
That 2018 team wasn't decent, it was arguably the most talented roster in A&M history and barely managed to sneak into the tournament because everyone was either hurt or suspended for weed the entire season. Then they decided to turn it on for the opening weekend of the tournament and played how they should've been playing all season. Yes they made the S16, but that team was a failure of coaching to keep them motivated and focused. Should've been playing for an SEC regular season title and instead went 9-9 in conference and made the tournament as a 7 seed. I think I'm one of the few people who don't view that season as a success despite how fun the UNC game was
JJxvi said:
The current level of our program over basically a nice three year span is roughly "Mark Turgeon"
So is that fine? Or is that not good enough? One thing I know for sure is thats a higher level than "Billy Kennedy"
Current level or current arc?
The arc may be rising. He dealt with Covid and fought back. He and his team never quit. Important.
A lot of roster capital to make another run at it. Maybe with Marble even. Boots impossible to replace, but we have solid members.
Let him work. It would be a shot in the dark to find a replacement. More likely a Kermit than a prince next.
It's basically the Sumlin/Jimbo argument. You can find reasons to say one is better than the other, however you want to skew the numbers. Regardless, even at times of inconsistency, he's doing enough to give us shots at success. We came a minute short of something crazy. We're going to be fine. Grass isn't always greener. Folks get greedy and want more, but we get rid of him and hire someone else, odds are we'll be terrible for 2-3 years. We'll never be terrible under Buzz. Let him lead this program.W said:
Buzz vs. Kennedy
is a classic standard deviation argument
Kennedy had bad teams and great teams -- high standard deviation
Buzz has had good teams and very good teams -- low standard deviation
take your pick
Hogs suck, Horns suck, everyone else I can deal with.
Kozmozag said:
So does buzz only recruit devout believers?
Clearly not since he stated he didn't know WL was a believer when he joined the program
Tobias Funke said:Kozmozag said:
So does buzz only recruit devout believers?
Clearly not since he stated he didn't know WL was a believer when he joined the program
Hassan Diarra is Muslim.
Thanks for posting the video. Buzz has certainly built a great culture for the program and it's clear the guys have bought in. We're trending upwards, despite the downs we've had.
Comparing Buzz to Kennedy is a false comparison anyway if you are including the Stansbury years with them. It's like you guys don't remember how painfully horrible those bad Kennedy teams were.
I never said comparing Buzz to other A&M coaches. I said other coaches. And I'm referring to coaches in the present. I find the comparison to past A&M coaches a waste of time. Similar now with Elko, things are different in college sports from in the past. All that matters is how they compare to the ones they are performing against. Buzz is doing pretty darn well against many top level SEC coaches in the present.
And the SEC is a whole other animal than it used to be. The SEC used to be Kentucky and a couple of other schools might make the dance.
Ranked in the 5-6 ranged of conferences. This year some ranked it first and we got the most teams ever in the dance.
And the SEC is a whole other animal than it used to be. The SEC used to be Kentucky and a couple of other schools might make the dance.
Ranked in the 5-6 ranged of conferences. This year some ranked it first and we got the most teams ever in the dance.
Lot of crow on the menu this spring, and a lot of people more pissed they were wrong than happy Buzz turned it around.
That is awesome!
If you don't like Buzz and you don't like what he's doing then cancel your season tickets. Oh yeah wait you don't have season tickets so your opinion doesn't matter
"I didn't come here to lose!" Charley Moran
THIS.Quote:
even at times of inconsistency, he's doing enough to give us shots at success. We came a minute short of something crazy. We're going to be fine. Grass isn't always greener. Folks get greedy and want more, but we get rid of him and hire someone else, odds are we'll be terrible for 2-3 years. We'll never be terrible under Buzz. Let him lead this program.
PLUS I love the way he leads young men and represents our university.
I just don't understand anyone who has followed Aggie Basketball long can look at his past few years and say it's time to cut bait with Buzz.
We are FORTUNATE he's leading our basketball program.
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i love what buzz brings to our program. he is a leader of men. he does it the right way and our team is something to be proud of. they represent us well win lose or draw.
Quote:
I just don't understand anyone who has followed Aggie Basketball long can look at his past few years and say it's time to cut bait with Buzz.
There aren't any of these people really other than a couple weirdos. The talk a month ago was fair even though most of us sane people knew there was no way he was getting fired anyway. But this is what we were talking about at the time, all you can do on a message board is talk about where the plane is currently, and at the time the plane was heading towards the ground looking like it was about to explode so the question "is this program headed the right direction?" was a fair question at the time.
But Buzz landed the plane in about as good a shape as was conceivably possible.
Things change in a hurry in this sport, and now he goes into next season not even remotely on any sort of hot seat.
people on this board would say lets go get Calipari, hes a winner
Lets go Buzz
Lets go Buzz
JJxvi said:
Kennedy sucked.
Was gonna post that myself.
Cannot believe anybody would think the Kennedy years were something to look back at and suggest that we should look favorably on them compared to Buzz's tenure.
Kennedy:
Record.Overall/Conf Place Conf Tourney Post-Season
Year 1 - 14-18/ 4-14 9th/10 Big12 1 win. None
Year 2 - 18-15/7-11 11th/14 SEC 1 win None
Year 3 - 18-16/8-10. 9th/14 SEC 0 wins None (CBI)
Year 4 - 21-12/11-7 5th/14 SEC. 0 wins NIT (1-1)
Year 5 - 28-9/13-5 Tied 1st/14 SEC 2 wins NCAA (2-1)
Year 6 - 16-15/8-10 9th/14 SEC 0 wins None
Year 7 - 22-13/9-9 8th/14 SEC 0 wins NCAA (2-1)
Year 8 - 14-18/6-12 11th/14 SEC 1 win None
Williams:
Year 1 - 16-14/10-8 7th/14 SEC Canceled (COVID)
Year 2 - 8-10/2-8 13th/14 SEC 0 wins None (COVID)
Year 3 - 27-13/9-9 8th/14 SEC 3 wins NIT (4-1)
Year 4 - 25-10/15-3 2nd/14 SEC 2 wins NCAA (0-1)
Year 5 - 21-15/9-9 7th/14 SEC 2 wins. NCAA (1-1)
So let's compare:
Total wins/losses through 5 seasons (Conference)
Kennedy - 99-70 (43-47)
Williams- 97-62 (45-37) - note NO games Feb '21 COVID
Conference Tournament Wins through 5 seasons
Kennedy - 4 wins - appeared in 1 Championship Game
Williams - 7 wins - appeared in 2 Championship Games
Post-Season Tournaments and Wins through 5 seasons
Kennedy - 1 NIT - 1 win
1 NCAAT - 2 wins (second win in 2OT over #11 Seed after miraculous comeback led to tie in regulation)
Williams - 1 NIT - 4 wins - appeared in Championship
2 NCAAT - 1 win (lost second game in OT to #1 Seed after miraculous comeback led to tie in regulation)
So, through 5 seasons: comparable overall records, Williams better in Conference play and Conference Tournament play and Williams with better post-season record appearing in three real tournaments (2 NCAATs to Kennedy's 1 NCAAT) with a much better NIT showing than Kennedy, though Kennedy was able to win that second NCAA game against the #11 Seed after his miraculous comeback in regulation while Williams was NOT able to win his second game against the #1 Seed after his miraculous comeback in regulation.
So, without considering intangibles such as overall reputation, success at previous stops, and relationship with players, and ONLY considering results over the first 5 years at Texas A&M - WIlliam appears to be in the lead as a better coach with better results through Year 5.
Of course, some might argue that Williams' contract and pay are so much higher that Kennedy reflected "more bang for the buck". But the counter argument is that Williams' contract and pay refect the going rate for someone with his proven track record of success as a coach in prior stops - with expectation being he will eventually match that level of success here.
So, I guess we can wait and see if Williams can beat Kennedy Years 6,7, and 8.
I am a huge Williams fan - but would argue and admit that if he cannot top Kennedy's final three years then we should probably let him go as we let Kennedy go.
Frankly, I believe that Williams will be much better than that.
Buzz is the right fit here imo. Keep it up and he will have a breakthrough year (or more) where we go deep into the tourney. It absolutely could have happened this year . I think he does need to tweak some things wrt recruiting to give us the best chance at success. I'm not even talking about pure basketball talent tho, more the mix of skills you need to match up more favorably with different sorts of teams.
The idea that anyone thinks we should get rid of Buzz just seems totally ridiculous to me .
I believe we are in good shape with head coaching in all of the major sports. AD needs to focus on fixing the marketing and ancillary aspects . We are not close to good in that arena imo.
The idea that anyone thinks we should get rid of Buzz just seems totally ridiculous to me .
I believe we are in good shape with head coaching in all of the major sports. AD needs to focus on fixing the marketing and ancillary aspects . We are not close to good in that arena imo.
Love Buzz. I hope he is our coach for the long haul. Results may not be where we want yet, but they will come in due time.
Buzz is a good man and a good coach.
He is the 11th highest-paid NCAA basketball coach... So he should be averaging a 3-seed annually with expectations to make the Sweet 16 regularly.
His peers in salary are 10th Nate Oats (Bama) and 12th Eric Musselman (Arky). Both of them have made the Sweet 16 or better 3 of the last 4 years.
He's a good man and coach - just not worth Top 11 money...
He is the 11th highest-paid NCAA basketball coach... So he should be averaging a 3-seed annually with expectations to make the Sweet 16 regularly.
His peers in salary are 10th Nate Oats (Bama) and 12th Eric Musselman (Arky). Both of them have made the Sweet 16 or better 3 of the last 4 years.
He's a good man and coach - just not worth Top 11 money...
Would they say he's a top 25 coach with the results to prove it? Because I kind of think that's what we expect for our program.JJxvi said:
I doubt anybody that knows ball thinks that Buzz Williams career has been floundering at Virginia Tech and Texas A&M since he left Marquette. Probably a large majority are more impressed than they were 11 years ago. The idea that Buzz has sucked for a decade is dumb. Im sorry.
So now what?Knoxville_Ag_08 said:
Buzz is a good man and a good coach.
He is the 11th highest-paid NCAA basketball coach... So he should be averaging a 3-seed annually with expectations to make the Sweet 16 regularly.
His peers in salary are 10th Nate Oats (Bama) and 12th Eric Musselman (Arky). Both of them have made the Sweet 16 or better 3 of the last 4 years.
He's a good man and coach - just not worth Top 11 money...
Fire him? You can't cut his pay.
Kneecap his recruiting by having the AD express disappointment in his performance relative to his pay?
It really doesn't make any difference whatsoever what random TexAgs posters' "expectations" are relative to Buzz's salary… as if you are paying it.
Buzz is getting a long leash and he has earned and deserves it. He is building success that is more likely to be sustainable. Because our NIL for MBB is crap, we HAVE to have a coach that is elite and building culture and keeping his best players from bolting for more pay.
You won't see a future Buzz A&M team mail it in for a season like your boy Musselman's Arky did this season.
Knoxville_Ag_08 said:
Buzz is a good man and a good coach.
He is the 11th highest-paid NCAA basketball coach... So he should be averaging a 3-seed annually with expectations to make the Sweet 16 regularly.
His peers in salary are 10th Nate Oats (Bama) and 12th Eric Musselman (Arky). Both of them have made the Sweet 16 or better 3 of the last 4 years.
He's a good man and coach - just not worth Top 11 money...
Exhibit A right here on what you get from a few posters on premium for the whole argument knocking Buzz. Always starts with his salary and twisting that into he's not getting the job done. Never fails!
New AD ain't going to worry about Buzz, until he fixes the volleyball program! It's all about priorities. LOL
Uh, yes. Almost certainly.AgLA06 said:Would they say he's a top 25 coach with the results to prove it? Because I kind of think that's what we expect for our program.JJxvi said:
I doubt anybody that knows ball thinks that Buzz Williams career has been floundering at Virginia Tech and Texas A&M since he left Marquette. Probably a large majority are more impressed than they were 11 years ago. The idea that Buzz has sucked for a decade is dumb. Im sorry.
Buzz Williams would be in pretty much everybody's list of top coaches somewhere between their #15 and their #35 probably. A lot of rankings would likely have either weird "flavor of the month" inclusions that actually havent really done anything Buzz hasn't done, or old guys based on what they did 20 years ago, depending on the biases of whoever was ranking them.
Buzz is good for A&M. He is a solid character and a good coach. He gets paid well here and not so much pressure ....OK, just make the tournament consistently?
This would be fun to do as a board but I'm horrified where Drew would end up
Buzz is what this country needs in coaching young men. Wow.
Averaging a 3 seed because he's the 11th highest paid .? That's not how things work especially when the program has never been a 3 seed … ever. He was brought in to build a consistent winner which many believe he is doing . Could he get us to a 3 seed a few times or even win it all once …. maybe but expecting a 3 seed annually … that's not a realistic expectation at this point. We've never even been in the elite eight altho we have had a team or 2 that were final 4/championship capable imo.
We actually have been a three seed a couple times, but that doesn't change your larger point, averaging a three seed is an insane thing to expect.
The obsession some people have with Buzz's salary is weird. The market is the market.
The obsession some people have with Buzz's salary is weird. The market is the market.
I never looked at that way, but you're right that is a weird obsession.
Calipari can't get out of the first round and he's the top paid coach in college basketball; it's not about the money.
Calipari can't get out of the first round and he's the top paid coach in college basketball; it's not about the money.
Buzz is such a good person. I do want him to succeed here. I grew very frustrated with him this season. And I think the game has changed in ways that make his defensive strategy less effective, especially the ridiculous new charge rules. But I'd send my son to play for him in a heartbeat
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