First let me say I am a guest here, it's your forum, and I will try to post respectfully. A&M is a fine academic and athletic institution and I hope I can discuss realignment without getting a bunch of grief for what are simply opinions. Disagreements, of course - Hate, I hope not.

Let's get the hangers-on out of the way:

Tech: Must follow Texas wherever Texas goes, if they're invited. Tech would fade into ignominy if they were relegated to the WAC or Mountain West or anywhere without Texas. Maybe they'd survive if they went to the SEC with A&M, but they'd end up a perennial whipping boy the likes of Mississippi State and the advantages of being in the SEC would be swallowed up largely by A&M. Tech really has to follow Texas.

Oklahoma State: They have to follow OU. If they got into the SEC with A&M, and OU followed Texas to the PAC-XX, it would be a fantastic scenario for OkState, who would be the only Oklahoma school in a great conference, and they'd have the A&M game to help them draw recruits from Texas, and they may well start supplanting OU in the "steals a bunch of great Texas talent" spot, but I simply don't see them getting an invitation without Texas and OU in the same camp.

OU: They really need to follow Texas. The lifeblood of their success has been Texas players. I recall that one year I was at the game and 9 of OU's defensive starters were from Texas, and on the offensive side of the ball 6 were from Texas. They can't risk losing the annual game with Texas (say, being replaced at the Cotton Bowl by Notre Dame or Michigan or someone equally glorious) and being in a conference without Texas, and losing that recruiting base. If they got an offer to join the SEC with A&M, maybe... they'd still lose the Texas game and all that entails and I think it would being to hurt them.

Texas: There are only three choices for Texas.

1. Stay in the Big12 and add teams. Personally I like this idea and I wouldn't care if we added BYU and Utah (rivalry), or Louisville and Tulsa (decent teams, good road trips, nice TV populations, both in the North geographically), or someone of that ilk. I don't see it happening but I'd live with it.

2. The Big10. The CIC deal and the money and the academic reputation are paramount. No, we have nothing in common with a bunch of snow-plowing yankees who wouldn't know a possum from a barn rat, but at UT our deal is based off image, and the image of the Big10 is academically great and that's what our administration is after.

3. The PAC-XX. Same story. Is Washington State any better academically than Auburn? Doubtful. I really don't know, but I do know that the academic reputation of the conference is strong. Maybe it's just because of the hippies at Berkley and the nerds at Stanford, but it is what it is.

The SEC will NEVER be an option for Texas. Why? The IMAGE. I'm not saying it's right, wrong, or anything else but that it IS. Vandy is a great school. There are arguments for every college and you can get a great education at SFA if you apply yourself, but the fact is that nationally the SEC is seen as a group of over-drinking, NASCAR watching, win first, study second, football is king and the library can go to Hell, redneck schools.

I don't particularly give a crap what the world thinks about this school or that school, but the powers (pardon the pun) at UT will never let the school make a decision that is better for football than for the overall image of the institution. Our admin won't let that reputation cloud or alter the one we now have.

Would our academics suddenly go in the toilet if we went to the SEC? Hell no. But you saw how TCU's applications went up 24% in the year they were in a BCS Bowl. The athletic programs clearly reflect on the academic institution.

Personally I have a hell of a lot more in common with ANYONE at an SEC school than I do anyone at a Pac-10 school, but the reputation is what we're discussing.

So we get to you:

A&M:

1. Big10: I just see the cultural divide as too great for y'all to be in the Big10. Let's face it. We're Texans. Sadly Texas isn't as Texan as A&M. Those people don't get us, we don't get them, and I really don't care to roadtrip to Purdue and I guarantee you a bunch of Aggies in Indiana or Illinois are not going to enjoy themselves like they would in Starkville. You ain't going to the Big10 except at gunpoint. I wouldn't want to either to be honest. I think our admin would like to, but I hate the idea.

2. Pac-XX. The benefit is that you get a bunch of close road games with former Big12 South teams. You get to keep playing Texas. You can sell recruits that it's just the Big12 South with a few cooler road trips. USC, UCLA, Stanford, Washington... et al... The downside is that you'll be "the other team in Texas" that joined the Pac-XX. It doesn't distinguish you any more than you already are. You can probably win the Pac-XX East, and if you get past the West champ you can make a BCS Bowl. Don't discount that. You're a hell of a lot more likely to win the Pac-XX East than you are to win the SEC West, and a whole hell of a lot more likely to make it all the way through and win the conference than you are to win the whole SEC.

But then it's back to the culture thing. Those people are different than we are. Or better put, more different than you than UT. Texas fancies itself some sort of illuminati/illiterati institution along the lines of Stanford, whether it is or not. A&M doesn't much give a crap what the "cultured academics" think. Honestly neither do I.

3. SEC

The crap part of joining the SEC is that (1) you may not win much if at all. That conference is a mother. Road trips to LSU, Arkansas, and Florida and Auburn in a year can just destroy you immediately. If you get through all those chumps on the road you get Alabama and Georgia on the road. Thanks but no thanks.

That said, you'll probably fill up some seats!

The positive is that you'll make a TON more money and you'll get some fantastic matchups.

I really can't comment on the cheating thing since much of what we hear or "know" is distorted and I bet there's cheating going on everywhere. Hell a few years ago Houston Baptist University (gymnastics powerhouse) was busted for cheating in men's gymnastics. If they're doing it we're all doing it.

The question is really this: If you join the SEC will you win, excel, get a bunch of recruits who want to play in the big football conference, and ascend to power status, leaving Texas behind, OR will losing the Texas game and dwelling in the cellar make you an SEC also-ran that doesn't get much in the way of recruits?

Personally I tend to think that it will be financially fantastic for you to join the SEC, your non-revenue sports will explode with facilities and wins and championship, and you'll do well there. I think your football will fade to the Arkansas, Ole Miss, Auburn level, and probably not win a conference or national title though.

In the Pac-XX you're more likely to win a conference and/or national title, but you'll just be the "redneck Texas stepchildren of the conference", just like to some extent Texas will be. We have a better chance to be the darlings of the conference than you do, in the Pac-XX.

I'd like to see us stay together, and I think A&M can be successful in the Pac-XX but I think from a pride, "we are A&M and we don't need Texas", and independence standpoint were I an Aggie I'd probably opt for the SEC, even knowing that it's not bloody likely I'd do much winning.

It's really your chance to assert yourselves and try to grab the ring.

I'd do it. I can also tell you that it's in our interest to not play you if you do, because it gives you basically everything you had in the Big12, with the glory of the SEC. We can't let that happen. We can't risk you in the SEC, getting all that TV coverage and money, and still let you play with the Princess. You gotta play with the help if you leave the Princess' playground. You'd recruit too well if you were in the SEC AND still got to play Texas on Thanksgiving. We'd risk losing our recruiting dominance and you can bet we ain't risking that. We have to hope that not playing us offsets the glamour gain of being in the SEC.

So if you think you can make due in the SEC and still recruit without playing Texas, even though you're more likely to win the Pac-XX, you probably ought to do it. Just for the pride factor if nothing else, and I know that's something about which the Aggies know plenty.

I'll miss playing you, good luck, and enjoy the SEC. The tailgates will be great. When I'm on a road trip standing next to some ****** who's grilling salmon and drinking 64 calorie Genuine Draft I'll be envying your bar-b-que and Lone Star.

God Bless and Hook 'Em

[This message has been edited by BurntOrangeBoy (edited 6/13/2010 12:55p).]

not a bad post...and you have some good points. I think if we can get more money in the SEC (tv and filling seats at games) we can improve our facilities. If we can improve facilities we can compete for better talent in TX. If we can get more talent we can be competetive anywhere.

In teh current Big 12 south and defact pac 10 east we are barely keeping up in the arms race and we will continue to slip as long as tu is making rules and controling the conference purse strings.

oh, and we know you cant risk playing us if we go to the SEC...and dont think we wont use that against you in recruits living rooms (of course we'll say its because you are scared).

[This message has been edited by AgRob (edited 6/13/2010 1:00p).]

Read about Albert Means' recruitment if you want to understand dirty SEC recruitment tactics. A&M and Texas refused to play that game and were dropped from his list.

Alabama played and won his commitment. Georgia, Arkansas and Kentucky also paid for visits, but lost out to Alabama.

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I'd do it. I can also tell you that it's in our interest to not play you if you do, because it gives you basically everything you had in the Big12, with the glory of the SEC.

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Good post, well thought out, but this is largley an empty threat.

I have no doubt that the tsip tshirt army or even some 2-percenter Ags would be fine with this.

Real, bonefide TexasExs and Old Army Ags would not. And they'll be the ones to decide it.

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You can save the sip book'em stuff for your on board.

For A&M the SEC is the best option. That's where we fit and that's where we should go.

The Big 10 stuff is bogus. They want Notre Dame not tu.



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"Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women."

Moe, I'm bonafide, 1990 graduate and lifelong Horn, but I can tell you that the thought of y'all in the SEC, with all the coverage and money and glory that entails, AND still getting to play us every Thanksgiving (with all the coverage and money and recruiting power that entails), scares the Hell out of me.

I'd MUCH rather not play you if you went to the SEC. It's our best chance to continue our recruiting dominance, which has basically been what has carried us for a decade.

I'd hate it, but no way I would let y'all be in that conference, with those matchups, those TV spots, all that money, and STILL get to play in a glory game for bragging rights in Texas that would influence every kid in the state, win, lose, or draw. No way.

"Yeah, Coach Sherman, I hear what you're sayin' but Texas beat you 12 outta the last 16 times you played them and are the winningest program in the country since Coach Brown took over. They're in the top 5 almost every year and on national TV routinely, plus they're the richest program in the country. I wish you and the Ags well, and I know your losing 9 games last year was a supposed aberration, but I'm going to Texas."

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Sadly Texas isn't as Texan as A&M

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truer words were never spoken

I agree with much of that. If it goes down such that we don't play anymore, I'll miss the Texas game a great deal.

The one thing I think is incorrect is that while Texas may have its feelings hurt enough intitally to cancel the A&M series, it won't last. It amounts to Texas cutting off its nose to spite its face. The TV revenue opportunity for an A&M/Texas non-conference series is simply foolish to turn down. Revenue that Texas would be able to keep virtually all of its half for its own account since the game would be non-conference.

I don't think Texas' athletic department is that stupid.

Stopped reading when an argument for A&M going to Pac X was that we get to keep playing t.u.????

We can still play you if we go to the SEC. Unless you guys are chicken *****z.

You guys need to get over yourselves. You guys are the premier brand in the college world. But you get your panties in a wad because we say to hell with you if we can't have the same size piece of the pie. Someone said NO to you and now the elitists from texas are all pissed off. You shouldn't be worried about how we will fare in the SEC. But your concerns are only propaganda to try and discourage from the SEC because you know us going a different direction to the SEC is not good for you guys for many reasons.

ideally if tu does decide not to play us, then a few years when our program has re-established itself we'll meet up in a bowl game with them. Win that one and see how long before the phone is ringing wanting to renew the rivalry.

Seems pretty solid analysis, especially us getting lost in the SEC part.

didn't even read it... couldn't stop laughing at the name "BurntOrangeBoy"

Let me clarify then, the Ags and Horns i'm talking about are the ones in their 50s thru 70s. The ones who can tell you all about The Junction Boys, Noble Doss, Rooster Andrews, the Texas Special, John David Crow and 54 Veer Pass.

Old Army will never miss a chance to bring the sips down a peg or two and TexasExs will never miss a chance to put aggie in their place.

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Right, so you wouldn't play us because you are afraid.


Fair enough.

your right Winston. We will never win another game against you or anyone. We will never be on tv again. We should quit everything. Things turn. t.u. has been down before. You guys need to get over yourselvs.

Very good OP. We are thinking about our reputation as well. We are to the point that we can stand on our own and want to prove this to ourself and the world.

You are right about not winning many games now, but with more resources and lot of things can change.

Once again, good post. It's just that one can see an Austin bais in it.

I want A&M to win football games and conference championships and national championships. That will happen alot more in the PAC than the SEC.

I don't want A&M to become a doormat. SEC = doormat.

You post a lot of good reasons to join the SEC, but the only real reason not to that you mention is that we'd get crushed. Arkansas was in much worse shape when we last heard from them in SWC. Last year they were a mid-level team in the SEC and they pulled our pants down on national television.

We've got at least one more season left in the Big 12. We return the best QB in the conference, the nation's leading sacker and everyone of an outstanding group of offensive skill players. Recruiting has consistently been better under Sherman than it was under Fran. Every indication is that we will be better this year than last. We'll be in a stronger position than Arkansas was when they started out, in a much bigger, more talent-rich state. In the long run, we won't own the SEC - no one has since Bear Bryant. But we'll be competitive most years and we'll take our turn at the top. You can bet on that.

Thanks for the post, BOB.

the bowl game committees will be fighting over the opportunity to match up us and t.u.

Good post. I hope you do continue to play us, though.

Some good point, some inaccuracies.
One being dealing with the difference conferences. The Pac10 would be intollerant of us and would frankly treat you like some wannabe liberals.
This will not work for us.
Big10 country is not intolerant in this manner. Yes, there's some Yankee versus stuff, but most of that from their end is in jest. I know being a yankee.
The obnoxiousness of Westcoasters will not be tolerable. tu will regret this move in years.

And you have forgotten about the part where we don't want to 'follow' you anymore.
If you weren't such intolerable 'leaders,' maybe we would. But you take a huge chunk out of every cake (giving us a slice) and act like you are being generous.
I'd rather fail on our own, which we won't, than keep getting your scraps. This just allows you to push further away from us.
tu in the Pac10 and us in the SEC would be a DISASTER for tu. You are right to be nervous. And no it isn't entirely due to growth by us. You will be hurt in many ways.
Too bad, you took advantage of things in the recent past.

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the bowl game committees will be fighting over the opportunity to match up us and t.u.

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You'd have to have a great year in the SEC for that to happen. Not likely anytime soon.

The real reason UT and UT fans don’t want A&M to head to SEC is just that possibility of power shift. There is no doubt even if we loose and do poorly in SEC for next 2-3 years, eventually we’ll get our act together. Our media coverage will be huge. Can’t you imagine possible game day with LSU, BAMA FL etc at Kyle. Yes, SEC will be hard initially but in the long run, TAMU will get equal or more media exposure than UT.( yes we can het more media coverage than UT. Think of UT vs. Tech game or UT vs. OkSU. That isn’t as attractive as TAMU and FL or TAMU and GA.) Think about possible game in Dallas at jerry’s world for SEC championship.

That media coverage of A&M in SEC will dilute UT coverage and eventually when we are winning, everything will fall in line including future recruits and sales of sports merchandising. The more coverage A&M and SEC get in Texas market, more dilutive it will be for UT. UT and UT fans aren’t verbalizing this threat but that what they are scared of us moving to SEC.

[This message has been edited by sleepybeagle (edited 6/13/2010 2:30p).]

good post

Good post discussion here. A couple of thoughts about PAC-16 and Big 12 South members being invited.

A friend of mine has been educating me slightly about revenue and TV $$$. Since this is about TV markets and many other things, why Tech with Texas A&M, Texas, OU and OSU?

In terms of all sports, hasn't Baylor about as many titles as Tech? Why not Baylor? If this is a demolition of the Big 12, why not TCU which features a team in DFW TV market along with their BCS appearance from last season? Put them in place of Tech or Baylor.

What about Kansas, K-State and Mizzou? Each of these have tradition and academic accomplishment. Why are they out of consideration?

In terms of TV sets, I think TCU belongs in the Pac 16 inclusion group of A&M, Texas, OSu and OU more than Tech. In fact, they could trade spots - Tech to the Mountain West and TCU to the Pac-16 - and it would fit.

The bad thing is that somebody gets left out if the Big 12 dissipates.

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Stopped reading when an argument for A&M going to Pac X was that we get to keep playing t.u.????

We can still play you if we go to the SEC. Unless you guys are chicken *****z.

You guys need to get over yourselves. You guys are the premier brand in the college world. But you get your panties in a wad because we say to hell with you if we can't have the same size piece of the pie. Someone said NO to you and now the elitists from texas are all pissed off...your concerns are only propaganda...because you know us going a different direction to the SEC is not good for you guys for many reasons.

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The SEC is talking about 25-30 million a year with a restructured deal.

The PAC is talking 20.

The difference in 10 million a year is huge for A&M right now.

SEC is the best choice because of the economics.

I think you're missing some reasons Texas won't go sec. They can't be the big dogs there. Sec schools won't put up with texas' crap and demands of bigger slices of the pie.

On the academic side, if that's what it is about why are academic stalwarts like ou, Osu, and tech tagging along. The PAC overall rep takes a hit with those three. At min the PAC west gets to benefit from the rep while the PAC east becomes the slower half of the conference.

I do agree with your assesments about why the rivalry may end. But perception of being cowards plus losing all that money would be tough to take. Wouldn't beating sec rep a&m be a benefit to tell Texas kids?

I'd hate to see it end but a&m has a chance to turn the tides and stand on their own. If the decision makers see the sec as the ags best chance to return to football dominance I don't see how they pass it up.

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Read about Albert Means' recruitment if you want to understand dirty SEC recruitment tactics. A&M and Texas refused to play that game and were dropped from his list.

Alabama played and won his commitment. Georgia, Arkansas and Kentucky also paid for visits, but lost out to Alabama.

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Totally correct. That is why we should join a conference featuring honest players like USC.

This was actually a well thought out post. Thank you for your entry.

If lsu can do it A&M can do it.

Great post OP, thanks for your perspective.