Logically taking the vaccine is lower risk than getting covid.
Vaccine Reluctance
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Last: 8 mo ago by Stat Monitor Repairman
And it's worth mentioning that the % risk being talked about is risk of death.Zobel said:
Logically taking the vaccine is lower risk than getting covid.
Covid can screw you up for a very long time and not kill you.
100% of COVID-19 deaths in Maryland in June were in people who were unvaccinated
— BNO Newsroom (@BNODesk) July 6, 2021
EDIT: I think maybe around 100 died in Maryland in June.
Zobel said:
Logically taking the vaccine is lower risk than getting covid.
You're trying to mitigate a statistically insignificant event with something that is also statistically insignificant. Life must be pretty good for people who are down to trying to prevent something that has a 99.99% chance of not impacting them.
You said "The fact remains they're trying to protect against something he has <1% chance of dying from. It goes back to some conversations that have happened on this board about taking 1 unknown risk to prevent another. I'm curious what they thought his risk was with COVID." The answer to your curiosity is - whatever the risk is from covid, the risk of the vaccine is lower.
Everything else you've thrown up is just hand waving - motor vehicle accidents, personal acceptance of risk, none of it supports your premise.
It's pretty rich for you to bring up the concept of statistically insignificant events when you were the one who brought in a single case of death correlated with the vaccine out of millions as a reason for people to not get the vaccine.
Everything else you've thrown up is just hand waving - motor vehicle accidents, personal acceptance of risk, none of it supports your premise.
It's pretty rich for you to bring up the concept of statistically insignificant events when you were the one who brought in a single case of death correlated with the vaccine out of millions as a reason for people to not get the vaccine.
Why can't people accept the fact that not everyone is going to take the vaccine?
You're stuck thinking about the individual. Try thinking of it this way:
- If the public sentiment around vaccines is that they will protect you and others at insignificant risk to yourself, then more people get vaccinated and more lives are saved (even though many of the individuals were not in harm's way)
- If the public sentiment around vaccines is that they aren't necessary because you, the individual, aren't at risk, then more people will not get vaccinated and more lives are lost
%.01 is a lot of people that could have made a better decision for themselves if they didn't believe it wouldn't happen to them. So let's stop telling people to believe that.
- If the public sentiment around vaccines is that they will protect you and others at insignificant risk to yourself, then more people get vaccinated and more lives are saved (even though many of the individuals were not in harm's way)
- If the public sentiment around vaccines is that they aren't necessary because you, the individual, aren't at risk, then more people will not get vaccinated and more lives are lost
%.01 is a lot of people that could have made a better decision for themselves if they didn't believe it wouldn't happen to them. So let's stop telling people to believe that.
Zobel said:
You said "The fact remains they're trying to protect against something he has <1% chance of dying from. It goes back to some conversations that have happened on this board about taking 1 unknown risk to prevent another. I'm curious what they thought his risk was with COVID." The answer to your curiosity is - whatever the risk is from covid, the risk of the vaccine is lower.
Everything else you've thrown up is just hand waving - motor vehicle accidents, personal acceptance of risk, none of it supports your premise.
It's pretty rich for you to bring up the concept of statistically insignificant events when you were the one who brought in a single case of death correlated with the vaccine out of millions as a reason for people to not get the vaccine.
I've addressed that, but you may have missed it.
https://texags.com/forums/84/topics/3196527/replies/59595764
I am thinking about the individual, because at the end of the day, that's all we're ultimately responsible for. That's the ugly part of freedompeople are going to do things you don't agree with.
If someone doesn't get the vaccine, that's their choice. They've assessed the risks and made the decision they feel is best for them. At this point, people have had the opportunity to get it if they wanted to. It's time to stop with the shaming.
If someone doesn't get the vaccine, that's their choice. They've assessed the risks and made the decision they feel is best for them. At this point, people have had the opportunity to get it if they wanted to. It's time to stop with the shaming.
I'm not shaming, I'm not against people making their own choices. I'm saying we need to stop propagating the idea that covid is a low risk that won't hurt you because 1) it can, and 2) it's still spreading and hurting others. You are responsible for your own shame if you feel that based on what I said.
This thread is amazing.
I see pro-choice people stating the risk percentages that make them choose to not get vaccinated. By acknowledging a percent level of risk, one obviously then admits there are risks....up to and including death. These same pro-choice people are in no way shape or form stating that nobody should get it or that you will die if you get it. In fact I have seen where they encourage groups to get it (excluding kids).
I have learned the only right answer is to be vaccinated. No other analysis is appropriate or reasonable.
I see pro-choice people stating the risk percentages that make them choose to not get vaccinated. By acknowledging a percent level of risk, one obviously then admits there are risks....up to and including death. These same pro-choice people are in no way shape or form stating that nobody should get it or that you will die if you get it. In fact I have seen where they encourage groups to get it (excluding kids).
I have learned the only right answer is to be vaccinated. No other analysis is appropriate or reasonable.
planoaggie123 said:
This thread is amazing.
I see pro-choice people stating the risk percentages that make them choose to not get vaccinated. By acknowledging a percent level of risk, one obviously then admits there are risks....up to and including death. These same pro-choice people are in no way shape or form stating that nobody should get it or that you will die if you get it. In fact I have seen where they encourage groups to get it (excluding kids).
I have learned the only right answer is to be vaccinated. No other analysis is appropriate or reasonable.
No the right answer is that the risk is so low for either the vaccine or infection that COVId should never cross your mind unless your a poon.
The_Fox said:planoaggie123 said:
This thread is amazing.
I see pro-choice people stating the risk percentages that make them choose to not get vaccinated. By acknowledging a percent level of risk, one obviously then admits there are risks....up to and including death. These same pro-choice people are in no way shape or form stating that nobody should get it or that you will die if you get it. In fact I have seen where they encourage groups to get it (excluding kids).
I have learned the only right answer is to be vaccinated. No other analysis is appropriate or reasonable.
No the right answer is that the risk is so low for either the vaccine or infection that COVId should never cross your mind unless your a poon.
@planoaggie123 what was that about nobody discouraging others from getting the vaccine?
LOL. Fox. Poorly timedtomtomdrumdrum said:The_Fox said:planoaggie123 said:
This thread is amazing.
I see pro-choice people stating the risk percentages that make them choose to not get vaccinated. By acknowledging a percent level of risk, one obviously then admits there are risks....up to and including death. These same pro-choice people are in no way shape or form stating that nobody should get it or that you will die if you get it. In fact I have seen where they encourage groups to get it (excluding kids).
I have learned the only right answer is to be vaccinated. No other analysis is appropriate or reasonable.
No the right answer is that the risk is so low for either the vaccine or infection that COVId should never cross your mind unless your a poon.
@planoaggie123 what was that about nobody discouraging others from getting the vaccine?
There are fringe on both sides of the vaccine. "get it or kill grandma" and "get it and you are weak/stupid".
My comment was largely to the previous page or two where someone arguing 0.001% is within an acceptable risk range was being told how crazy / flippant he was. That risk level on an individual basis is extremely small and even in mass everyone at that age level would not cause hospital overruns, etc. I also believe those rates to be skewed higher b/c of the comorbidity group and hopefully all such people (18+ overweight/diabetes/etc) are not too proud to skip out on the vaccine. So assuming someone is healthy you can add a few zeros likely....
nobody said anyone was crazy or flippant. all that was said when you're talking about risk it doesn't make any sense to only talk about one half of a binary and mutually exclusive choice. talking about small risks is disingenuous when the whole discussion kicked off with someone bringing up a literal less than one in a million case to make a point.
Agree the single case is crazy. That stuff needs to end. Think i said that earlier.Zobel said:
nobody said anyone was crazy or flippant. all that was said when you're talking about risk it doesn't make any sense to only talk about one half of a binary and mutually exclusive choice. talking about small risks is disingenuous when the whole discussion kicked off with someone bringing up a literal less than one in a million case to make a point.
You just said it "doesnt make sense to only talk about one half..." but what does that mean? That he did not do a full analysis? Would that be considered flippant?
Is it possible, in your mind, to do a "full analysis" and get to a reasonable answer of "no vaccine is ok'?
planoaggie123 said:
That risk level on an individual basis is extremely small and even in mass everyone at that age level would not cause hospital overruns, etc. I also believe those rates to be skewed higher b/c of the comorbidity group and hopefully all such people (18+ overweight/diabetes/etc) are not too proud to skip out on the vaccine. So assuming someone is healthy you can add a few zeros likely....
That's the thing. People are too proud. And they are enabled by individual-focused statistics that convince them nothing bad will happen to them. But when enough proud people think they don't need it, significant numbers of people continue spreading, getting sick, and dying.
Zobel said:
nobody said anyone was crazy or flippant. all that was said when you're talking about risk it doesn't make any sense to only talk about one half of a binary and mutually exclusive choice. talking about small risks is disingenuous when the whole discussion kicked off with someone bringing up a literal less than one in a million case to make a point.
This is true.
tomtomdrumdrum said:planoaggie123 said:
That risk level on an individual basis is extremely small and even in mass everyone at that age level would not cause hospital overruns, etc. I also believe those rates to be skewed higher b/c of the comorbidity group and hopefully all such people (18+ overweight/diabetes/etc) are not too proud to skip out on the vaccine. So assuming someone is healthy you can add a few zeros likely....
That's the thing. People are too proud. And they are enabled by individual-focused statistics that convince them nothing bad will happen to them. But when enough proud people think they don't need it, significant numbers of people continue spreading, getting sick, and dying.
I agree some people are likely too proud and i would even go too ignorant to realize they are obese or have other comorbidities.
At some point we can't nanny state everyone. I don't see it as likely that any super mutant variant would push hospitals to the brinks again, at least not in the US.
People make choices daily. Some make choices to ignore their own health issues. They may have higher risk of dying for those issues over COVID.
Psaki said something in the press conference i believe today about going "door to door to educate". This kind of crap does nothing but turn vaccine hesitant people off and make them more hesitant. I personally believe if the government just continues to make the vaccines available, drop the pushes to get people vaccinated (ie cant do X if not vaccinated), get full FDA approval (dont want to get into the argument that it is effectively a given) and then in 6 more months to 1 year you will see a lot more people going "ok, i am ready".
I agree with all of that, and think it doesn't conflict with my argument.
Fair! I think i misunderstood your earlier statement as meaning that anyone highlighting the %s as their reason for no vaccine was somehow "propagating low risk that wont hurt". I dont think that is propagating. I think its making a decision based on facts. The key to using such statistics is understanding your own health profile....tomtomdrumdrum said:
I agree with all of that, and think it doesn't conflict with my argument.
I'm saying we need to stop propagating the idea that covid is a low risk that won't hurt you because 1) it can, and 2) it's still spreading and hurting others
Some people will decide one way and some people will decide another way.
Why does each side care so much about convincing or influencing the other?
Why does each side care so much about convincing or influencing the other?
Because one side sees it as a community issue and the other a personal issue.yukmonkey said:
Some people will decide one way and some people will decide another way.
Why does each side care so much about convincing or influencing the other?
It is a community issue because while you may not get sick and die you can spread it to others that will get sick and die. That seems to be true.
It is a personal decision because it the community does not own your body, at least not in the USA. And it is your right to do what you want with your body. That also tends to be true.
Neither side is really wrong. What is frustrating to watch is when people ignore the obvious realities. That is where the fight is.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.
Well said.
agsalaska said:Because one side sees it as a community issue and the other a personal issue.yukmonkey said:
Some people will decide one way and some people will decide another way.
Why does each side care so much about convincing or influencing the other?
It is a community issue because while you may not get sick and die you can spread it to others that will get sick and die. That seems to be true.
It is a personal decision because it the community does not own your body, at least not in the USA. And it is your right to do what you want with your body. That also tends to be true.
Neither side is really wrong. What is frustrating to watch is when people ignore the obvious realities. That is where the fight is.
This is so true and strikes a major nerve with me. Met a guy last week who lost his Vaccinated 66 yr old mother to Covid. The vaccine didn't protect her. She was the driving force for her family to leave India and become Americans.
I've had Covid as have the rest of my immediate family.
My health research sister says the vaccines should be appropriately named "experimental vaccines."
It's sad that EVERY FCKNG THING is generally based in lies when right now we need the truth so badly.
Local circular paper showed of my 10 surrounding zip codes in Harris county vaccine rates were 38% on low side and 52% on high side--only 1 above 50%.
No masks or restrictions for awhile. No spikes or variants. Deaths and cases in all of Harris county seem flat for some time now
Is this due to natural immunity? Significant time and reluctance since the vaccines rolled out . What gives?
No masks or restrictions for awhile. No spikes or variants. Deaths and cases in all of Harris county seem flat for some time now
Is this due to natural immunity? Significant time and reluctance since the vaccines rolled out . What gives?
Just wait two weeks after the 4th. We will be lucky to make it to august.
Just when we're set up to have a really good football season, we're all gonna vanish before it happens.
Sounds like a good sales pitch. Take the vaccine! It may or may not protect you.Reload8098 said:
This is so true and strikes a major nerve with me. Met a guy last week who lost his Vaccinated 66 yr old mother to Covid. The vaccine didn't protect her. She was the driving force for her family to leave India and become Americans.
I've had Covid as have the rest of my immediate family.
My health research sister says the vaccines should be appropriately named "experimental vaccines."
It's sad that EVERY FCKNG THING is generally based in lies when right now we need the truth so badly.
Bassmaster said:Sounds like a good sales pitch. Take the vaccine! It may or may not protect you.Reload8098 said:
This is so true and strikes a major nerve with me. Met a guy last week who lost his Vaccinated 66 yr old mother to Covid. The vaccine didn't protect her. She was the driving force for her family to leave India and become Americans.
I've had Covid as have the rest of my immediate family.
My health research sister says the vaccines should be appropriately named "experimental vaccines."
It's sad that EVERY FCKNG THING is generally based in lies when right now we need the truth so badly.
99.2% of all COVID deaths in America are currently from unvaccinated people. The above example highlights more why I care so much that everybody gets vaccinated than a failure of the vaccine.
I'm struggling to follow this post a bit.Reload8098 said:agsalaska said:Because one side sees it as a community issue and the other a personal issue.yukmonkey said:
Some people will decide one way and some people will decide another way.
Why does each side care so much about convincing or influencing the other?
It is a community issue because while you may not get sick and die you can spread it to others that will get sick and die. That seems to be true.
It is a personal decision because it the community does not own your body, at least not in the USA. And it is your right to do what you want with your body. That also tends to be true.
Neither side is really wrong. What is frustrating to watch is when people ignore the obvious realities. That is where the fight is.
This is so true and strikes a major nerve with me. Met a guy last week who lost his Vaccinated 66 yr old mother to Covid. The vaccine didn't protect her. She was the driving force for her family to leave India and become Americans.
I've had Covid as have the rest of my immediate family.
My health research sister says the vaccines should be appropriately named "experimental vaccines."
It's sad that EVERY FCKNG THING is generally based in lies when right now we need the truth so badly.
It's unfortunate about his mother, but the efficacy of the vaccines isn't in question at this point. They're highly effective by every measure, but as with any vaccine they aren't 100% effective.
They've been more thoroughly tested than any modern vaccine, outside of for long term effects which is the case for any new drug. Everyone saying that there wasn't sufficient testing because of how quickly the vaccines were released is simply incorrect, due to the unusually massive use case testing was accomplished very quickly and we now actually have far more data on these than probably any other vaccine in history.
The shortcuts in development were in eliminating red tape and all the gaps that normally occur in the drug development timeline. Reports that normally take a week or two were done overnight with triple the staff. Approvals that normally sit for two months were signed off on next day. Etc.
i hear this and agreeQuote:
we now actually have far more data on these than probably any other vaccine in history.
i'm fully vaccinated with mRNA
but given what you said is true, why still EUA for adults?
and why are EUA shots being extended down to adolescents? is that ethical?
I'm actually curious about this as well and asking some people who would know more for some insight. Will report back if I learn anything.
Gordo14 said:Bassmaster said:Sounds like a good sales pitch. Take the vaccine! It may or may not protect you.Reload8098 said:
This is so true and strikes a major nerve with me. Met a guy last week who lost his Vaccinated 66 yr old mother to Covid. The vaccine didn't protect her. She was the driving force for her family to leave India and become Americans.
I've had Covid as have the rest of my immediate family.
My health research sister says the vaccines should be appropriately named "experimental vaccines."
It's sad that EVERY FCKNG THING is generally based in lies when right now we need the truth so badly.
99.2% of all COVID deaths in America are currently from unvaccinated people. The above example highlights more why I care so much that everybody gets vaccinated than a failure of the vaccine.
Aren't 100% of the 99.2% choosing not to get vaccinated?
Maybe there are still places in the US that dont have vaccines?
You can get vaccinated pretty much anywhere in the country with no problems.JFrench said:Gordo14 said:Bassmaster said:Sounds like a good sales pitch. Take the vaccine! It may or may not protect you.Reload8098 said:
This is so true and strikes a major nerve with me. Met a guy last week who lost his Vaccinated 66 yr old mother to Covid. The vaccine didn't protect her. She was the driving force for her family to leave India and become Americans.
I've had Covid as have the rest of my immediate family.
My health research sister says the vaccines should be appropriately named "experimental vaccines."
It's sad that EVERY FCKNG THING is generally based in lies when right now we need the truth so badly.
99.2% of all COVID deaths in America are currently from unvaccinated people. The above example highlights more why I care so much that everybody gets vaccinated than a failure of the vaccine.
Aren't 100% of the 99.2% choosing not to get vaccinated?
Maybe there are still places in the US that dont have vaccines?
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