oh, and if you want to get technical, RC also gave him Warren, Schroeder & Riley, who will all be in camps next year

2003 was the first year we had facilities in our pocket to recruit with & RC did pretty well with that

We had 3 more Big wins in those years than we've had under fran, that's the bottom line. RC deserved to get fired for those years, and Fran deserves to get fired for being worse.

Great post.

Syd, try decaf, dude.

STAFF:

Sticky this thread please so that all the furstrated Aggies might stop with all the stupid threads posted as of late

If I was a name dropper, I'd use mine

I am not bitter, I just have more free time than most, at least until January

Why would I settle for coffee?

Syd, so what, we had some guys that could make it into the NFL. That doesn't matter when you think about other positions. We were weak at a lot of positions, and had some good players at others. Depth was also a huge issue

quote:

---

Reuber, Hangartner, Joseph, Carter, Murphy, Taylor, Jolly, Mcneal

---

Carter, Reuber and joseph werent drafted.

04 Taylor
05 Tmurph, Hangartner
06 Jolly, Reggie

Carter and Reggie are on the PQ
Murph and Taylor are done


So lets see we need 22 players each season and thats not counting 2 deep...
- one of those is drafted Frans first year
- 2 his second year
- 2 his 3rd year

Sounds like we put a LOAD of talent in the NFL those 3 years.

I was looking at RC's 4th year, and realized how much tougher things have gotten. In 1992, we started at Stanford, and then our next 11 games (and those teams' final records were:

2-9 LSU
4-7 Tulsa
3-8 Missouri
5-6 Tech
6-5 Rice
7-5 Baylor
5-6 SMU
5-6 Louisville
4-7 Houston
2-8 TCU
6-5 Texas

That is a pretty easy schedule to get 12 wins with.

Of course, we ended that season with a 25 point loss in the Cotton Bowl to Notre Dame.

[This message has been edited by TxsAggieFn (edited 11/14/2006 7:44p).]

well done

quote:

---

Yeah, it did rain today in Newport Beach

---

I did think it ever rained in Newport Beach. It is always sunny in Orange County

Warren didnt have to stick to his commit. Fran had to recruit him to stay commited.

in 92 Gaylor was the "best" team we faced?

WOW! I thought the early 80's was their time in the spot light

that and I thought some of the 70's

but not the 90's!!!

syd, i think it's time for the gun in the mouth.

So, because they weren't drafted means they aren't really talented????

Wow, tell that to Rod Smith genius

What you want me to shoot you weeza? Well, I can put you in contact with some guys that can do that. That way your family, or someone who may give a shat that you breathe can get some insurance money

[This message has been edited by Syd_X_Barrett (edited 11/14/2006 7:53p).]

Stanford and Notre Dame were both better than Baylor, but Baylor was our best "regular season" opponent, and best conference opponent.

Oh, and it rains here occasionally, but I'm sure it will be 75 and sunny again tomorrow

Oh, and we put more talent in the NFL those years than 7 other teams in the Big 12, and where did we finish again?

I'm referring to '03-'05 for sake of Val Kilmer above

[This message has been edited by Syd_X_Barrett (edited 11/14/2006 7:55p).]

great post.

I would like to see an alaysis of the recuiting through 2006 though. But that was one of the first posts that actually made me stop banging the pot for a second.

Show me the recruiting analysis though 2006 and if it has imporved as much as the rushing game then you have a great argument.

Just to continue...

03 Warren, Sammy, Bethel, Kiel, Whitley, Pearce

02 McKinney, Rocky

01 Robert Ferguson, Ron Edwards, Michael Jameson,jason Glenn, Chris Taylor, Ronald Flemons

00 Hall, Lechner, Cole, Webster

Fran had 8
RC had 18

[This message has been edited by A&M Iceman (edited 11/14/2006 8:00p).]

also...the NFL talent RC had in '98 is rediculous. anybody could have won with that team.

just goes to show that we were playing weaker competition and had more talent in the 90's. doesn't excuse some of the coaching DECISIONS fran has made the last couple years, but it was definitely time to get rid of RC.

Thanks for such a well researched and documented post (a rarity on this board). I've said for a long time, not many realize how far this program had fallen. Coach Fran has tried to rebuild it competing for players against Oklahoma where they've won a national championship and played for another, LSU where they've won a national championship, and tu, where, they've won a national championship. I don't think there's another program in the country that is trying to compete on that level that has had as much to overcome. Especially where the expectations are so high and patience so short. I remember a backlash against Mack Brown a couple of years ago because they could not beat Oklahoma and couldn't win the Big 12 title game. He had FAR greater talent too. Just look at the professional rosters for players that played for him. It took Vince Young to get them where they wanted to go. Our playmakers are all freshmen and sophomores, and right now, they are all on offense. I'm class of '80. I've seen a lot through my time. I drive in from Lubbock for every home game and stand with the 12th Man with my daughter (Class of '07). I'm proud of how far we've come from where we were. No one can watch this team play and say it's not legitimately improved over last year and it will get better next year, even as the schedule gets tougher. The mood swings on this board are amazing. After the Missouri win, people were talking 11-1 or 10-2. Now after two tough losses that could have gone either way, we're done, it's over, we'll never beat anyone. People criticize Coach Fran because he passed the ball in the Oklahoma game, and because he didn't throw the ball to get the first down in the Nebraska game. Yes, we have not done well against tu, Oklahoma and tech, but we're just now getting to the point of having a chance to compete. I'll alwayws stand with the 12th Man either in person or in Spirit, and I'll support this team and its Coaching staff as long as we are making progress. I hope others will join me. God Bless you all, and God Bless Texas A&M.

Staff:

Make aggieblitz auto L status. This board needs more of his posting and less of the norm

Or at least a spirit tag.

Great post. Anyone that can't see improvement in the program is blind. Wally and RC let this program turn into crap.

It is going to take time to turn this thing around.

Fran will get it done!

more potbangers need to read this thread.

i am still confident that fran can get it done, we are very close.

Excellent work there. Good research and assessment.

Good post with some great research!!

How can you say we should have been 5-7 in 2002. I was at the tech, nebraska, and misouri games and those were heart breaking losses even more so than anything we've had this year. If you throw in the Oklahoma St game were we lost by 2 with a pick in the endzone at the end of the game (called as td by dave south on the radio) there was four close games that we could have and should have won if not for unfortunate things (2 missed PATS in tech game). We were so close to 10-2 that year and I went into every game thinking we would win for sure. To talk about "blow out" losses in the 1999-2001 and then not mention the close losses in 2002 while saying we should have been 5-7 is just plain ignorance. I scanned the rest of your info but I couldn't take any of it seriously because of your obvious bias.

[This message has been edited by oldarmy76 (edited 11/14/2006 9:38p).]

At the beginning of the season everybody said no more excuses. No more blaming rc for fran's failures. Well here we are at the end of another disappointing season and guess what? You guys are once again blaming rc and patting yourselves on the back for being so clever. Will it never end.

Here's some more on the recruiting:

http://tamu-and-baseball.com/signingclasscontributions.html


Many of you look at the number of NFL guys we have as a judge but I think it's better to look at the All-Conference selections. You don't have to be an NFL guy to be a good college player.

I've documented the All-Big 12 players in the above link but here's a recap of the guys from the 1999-2002 signing classes:

Hangartner: '03 & '04
J.Carter: '05
T-Murph: '03 & '04
J.Appel: '03 & '04
B.Jones: '04
Reggie: '04
C-Lew: '03
J.Jolly: '04 & '05
Pegram: '04 & '05

The thing that is so staggering is the lack of good defensive players we had. To start the 2003 season we had one LBer with more than 1 career start. That was Jerred Morris, who was done for the season after game 2.

From our 2000, & 2001 LBer recruits we got two career starts (both from the same player)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Check out "Texas A&M & Baseball In No Particular Order"
at tamu-and-baseball.com

[This message has been edited by AgRyan04 (edited 11/14/2006 10:15p).]

A good post that points out why RC was fired and sheds some light on Fran's task when he took over. However, blowout losses like 77-0 can't be explained away by any 'bare cupboard' theory. Moreover, continued embarrassing blowouts into the 3rd year of Fran, aren't explained by it either.

This post does nothing to change my opinion of Fran as a poor gameday manager, poor teacher of fundamentals, and as an average at best developer of talent. I don't buy the "RCs players were all throw-aways" theory for Fran's struggles. That is a cop out and a crutch. Fran came in billing himself as a 'turnaround specialist' who could 'win with other coaches players'. I held him to that reputation and didn't just conveniently forget it when our AD starting to feed us a steady diet of patience and 6 year rebuilding plans.

While I have serious doubts that Fran will be able to sustain a high level of consistent performance here (i.e. 9-10+ wins per year is essentially what he was hired to bring us which puts us competing for championships most years); he has a chance next week to earn some redemption for himself and gain some shelter from the criticism. I'll be happy to eat my words if he shows that he can finish this year strong, and win some big games on the road next year. To date, he has delivered little but doubts and regrets.

The 0-77 loss was a long time ago. Let it go. Anything that happens in a coach's first year shouldn't even be looked at.

More importantly to me is to look at the heart this team has shown this year. These are Fran's players, playing in Fran's system, and for the first time in a while, an Aggie team has played every game with the Aggie ideal of "I've never seen 'em quit".