Of course. It just pisses me off when people blame Fran's struggles on RC.

So JC LB's dont have to contribute?

who here thinks that the 2000, 2001 or 2002 team would beat the 2006 version. seriously.

who are the coaches?

I don't blame Fran's troubles on RC.

I think RC was overrated, especially by kids now that never saw any of those games.

The program was certainly down, and heading further down when Fran took over.

I have no reason to believe 0-77 would not have happened with RC at the helm. RC got blown out and shut out plenty.

Look, I'm not thrilled at everything Fran has done but to give RC a complete free pass isn't fair. He does hold some responsibility for where we are now.

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Check out "Texas A&M & Baseball In No Particular Order"
at tamu-and-baseball.com

2 points:

1. To the guy that said that "anything a coach does in his first year doesn't matter", I guess Stoops shouldn't get credit for beating us 51-6 then and Coker should return that National Championship Trophy because it doesn't matter. I guess Mack Brown didn't win 9 games and beat us in 1998 then either.

2. To those who disagree that we should have been 5-7 in 2002, let's look at the games we won and lost:

UL-Lafayette: Would have been a shutout were it not for a TD with 2 minutes left. (1-0)

@Pittsburgh: We won because of two penalties on a "Swinging Gate" Extra Point play that ended up with them missing the PAT. With Fitzgerald, they would have beaten us in OT (2-0)

Virginia Tech: Terrible Offense (2-1)

Louisiana Tech: First game with Sumlin as OC (3-1)

Texas Tech: What some of you forget is that we were up 35-17 early in the 4th quarter and gave up 21 unanswered points before missing our first PAT. Had he made it and the score was 42-38, we would have probably lost 45-42 in regulation. (3-2)

@Baylor: I long for the days in which we beat Baylor 41-0 in Waco again. (4-2)

@Kansas: Dustin Long still holds the record for most passing yards in a single game for us at 399. (5-2)

Nebraska: Up 31-14 late in the 3rd, we squander another lead and lose 38-31. (5-3)

@Oklahoma State: We never lead in this game and were picked in the end zone on the last play. (5-4)

Oklahoma: How we won this game and blew all the others I have no idea. (6-4)

Missouri: We had to fight and claw our way back in only to have another game end with an interception. (6-5)

@t.u.: 9-7 halftime deficit turns into a 50-20 loss (6-6)

For someone to sit there and tell me that "because we were in such close games" that we should have been 10-2 is complete nonsense. The Tech and Nebraska losses were blowouts in our favor before we completely choked, the Pittsburgh win was lucky, and the only losses in which we could have won late were OSU and Missouri.

5-7 is what the record should have been in 2002, 7-5 best case. This was in a year that we were supposed to compete for the National Championship.

a coach is part of the team.

It was said about a famous coach, maybe the Bear, that" He could take his'n and beat your'n or take your'n and beat his'n."

It says a great coach can win with what he's got to work with.

The cupboard bare excuse has become way more than threadbare.

ok, I'm going to bed. Good discussion gang.

I have a feeling, however, that when I get up in the morning this thread will have vanished....poof...


wait, didn't Bear go 1-9 in his first year?

Hitler was famous and said a lot of things....that doesn't mean he was always right.

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Check out "Texas A&M & Baseball In No Particular Order"
at tamu-and-baseball.com

[This message has been edited by AgRyan04 (edited 11/15/2006 12:21a).]

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I have a feeling, however, that when I get up in the morning this thread will have vanished....poof...

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this same stuff was posted in the aggies only forum and in maroon and white recruiting. the discussion was a lot better there.

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1. To the guy that said that "anything a coach does in his first year doesn't matter", I guess Stoops shouldn't get credit for beating us 51-6 then and Coker should return that National Championship Trophy because it doesn't matter. I guess Mack Brown didn't win 9 games and beat us in 1998 then either.

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I said it, and meant that anything bad that happens that first year shouldn't be held against us.

And thanks for pointing out yet another reason why that 6-51 loss to OU was much more embarrassing than 0-77. We lost the first one to a rookie coach.

Txaggiefn... you pick out two bad losses... where are your WINS to compare?

Before this thread vanishes I'd like to point out that we have a good chance to win this football game. Am I crazy? Maybe not.

Jel I hope you are right, but I'm going with crazy right now.

TXaggieFN... still looking?...LOL

Sorry. I was on another forum.

It's funny how quickly we forget the game the week before the 0-77 game.

Or Ok State last year. Or the Colorado game.

Let me ask this. What do you consider RC's "signature win" of his first 4 years?

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And thanks for pointing out yet another reason why that 6-51 loss to OU was much more embarrassing than 0-77

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If we convert that TD pass near the end of the first half, the game is 24-13 at halftime and we get back into it. Instead, we fail and Oklahoma scores to make it 31-6 at halftime.

77-0 was far worse because

a. It was the worst loss in our history

b. It was 49-0 at halftime and 77-0 after the 3rd quarter. At that pace, had Oklahoma not shown mercy and really wanted to humiliate us, they could have pulled a Houston/SMU and thrown 100 or more on the board. We never got past midfield and had more penalty yards than total yards.

Like I said, that game sucked, but it wasn't *that* embarrassing to me. Most of my non-Ag buddies just shrugged it off because we had a new coach, had won 73-10 the week before, etc.

However, the 6-51 loss where we were #10 and supposed to be contending for a National Championship, losing to new coach and an unranked team... I got a lot of hell from non-Ag buddies for that one.

[This message has been edited by TxsAggieFn (edited 11/15/2006 12:49a).]

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Most of my non-Ag buddies just shrugged it off because we had a new coach, had won 73-10 the week before, etc.

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Your timetable is very skewed:

10/11/2003: Texas A&M 73 Baylor 10
10/18/2003: Nebraska 48 Texas A&M 12
10/25/2003: Oklahoma State 38 Texas A&M 10
11/1/2003: Texas A&M 45 Kansas 33
11/8/2003: Oklahoma 77 Texas A&M 0

We had just beaten Kansas the week prior to Oklahoma that year.

Great post H6RBW! That puts some numbers and logic to the opinion I have formed about the state of the program Fran inherited.

R. C. was a great coach, but he was "old news" to young recruits when Stoops and Brown came on the scene. He was able to coach up mediocre talent to win games until the talent pool became so thin that the bottom fell out. The attrition of our "highly rated" recruiting classes in his last few years shows how he was forced to take chances on players who were academic or personality risks. I believe the trouble had its beginning with the NCAA sanctions. A lot of players chose to go elsewhere after that.

Francione has had a tough row to hoe in the Big 12 South:

1) He inherited a program in far worse shape than expected
2) He had to recruit against Stoops and Brown, two of the best recruiters around
3) He had to compete with tu and ou and their superior facilities
4) The Big 12 South has been represented in more than its fair share of national championship games and has won two MNC's in this decade!
5) He also inherited some really difficult nonconference schedules (excepting this season)
6)He brought a defensive coordinator who couldn't adjust to the innovative offenses in this conference... now that has changed for the better

Anyway... if you would replace Fran at this point, who would you get??? It would have to be a sure-fire winner. You wouldn't want to roll the dice on anything but a sure bet. I don't think there are many of those out there and the ones I can think of are already settled elsewhere. Fran's about to turn the corner with this program. Let's stick with him and get behind the team.

OlArmy76,
You say I'm ignoring close losses in 2002 by saying we should have been no better than 5-7, and you point to the nebraska and mizz games.
We got 3 turnovers against Nebraska, 2 taken directly for TDs (fumble recover in endzone, and blocked punt for TD), and we still couldn't win. We had no turnovers. They ran the ball for almost 400 yards, we ran it for almost 40. I call that a game we were lucky to lose by 7.
Mizz - they ran for 260 yards, we ran for 36. Yeah, we passed for a lot on them. BUt the fact remains, we were getting pushed around, and we couldn't push anyone around. They had 2 turnovers, we had one.
Call those games we should have won if you want to, but I still maintain they were games we were lucky to be that close in.

while the original post is interesting......it doesnt say much.

My question, is how do those numbers compare with other schools we played/or play now? How many of their signees contributed?

I realize we had a 'bare cupboard' when Fran took over.....however he's in year 4, and has had some highly rated recruiting classes.

TODAY, WE ARE MORE TALENTED THAN ISU, TSU, BAYLOR, ARMY, OSU, KANSAS, ETC ETC ETC.....yet we still struggle to beat these teams, often losing.

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Yeah, Tedford, Petrino, Rodriguez all had 8 future NFL guys on their teams when they took over, right?

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Any of these 3 schools have their #1 rival who is less than 100 miles away and HAS A BUDGET THAT IS $30 MILLION MORE THAN THEIRS?

nice post

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Any of these 3 schools have their #1 rival who is less than 100 miles away and HAS A BUDGET THAT IS $30 MILLION MORE THAN THEIRS?

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No. But would they lose to Baylor? Struggle with Texas State? Get spanked by ISU?

I think "drey00" is right on the mark.

Two separate issues.

The question remains: Have we found the solution?

I, too, will pass on comment. Enough has been said already.

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However, the 6-51 loss where we were #10 and supposed to be contending for a National Championship, losing to new coach and an unranked team... I got a lot of hell from non-Ag buddies for that one.

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Hey, you should take your own advice and just get over it. Its been much longer since that loss than 77-0.

Someone mentioned 4 losses where RC's teams allowed 50 points. That's 4 losses of that magnitude in 13 years. Without looking it up, I can think of at least 3 games (Tech '03, '05, and OU '03) where we gave up 50+ points, not to mention many times giving up scores in the 40s to some pretty average teams like NU in '03 and ISU in '05.



[This message has been edited by MemAg92 (edited 11/15/2006 12:35p).]

I appreciate the work that went into compiling the info...nice work. RC needed to go and that was obvious.

Having said that, what does any of this have to do with Fran passing versus running on 3rd and goal from the 2 yard line not once but twice in critical game situations?

In the ou game it should have been 3rd & 4th down, if needed. I don't think we would have needed 4th down. In the NU game he not only doesn't run it, but he sends Lane wide right as if to purposefully give the finger to the 12th Man. I don't care 2 cents about his explanation that Lane was a decoy. He only would be a decoy if he was in the backfield?!

Bottomline, Fran DID NOT recognize his mistake from the OU embarrassment. He repeated it. That's all I need to see.

As for recruiting - anyone seriously considering A&M would be hard-pressed not to want to come play in that environment. Kyle Field is a recruiters trump card extraordinaire!

Gig'em

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In the NU game he not only doesn't run it, but he sends Lane wide right as if to purposefully give the finger to the 12th Man.

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I felt the same way.

It was as if he said, "I'll show them" since he'd been getting so much crap about passing 3 straight times inside the 7 yard line against OU.

Welp, he sure showed us.




[This message has been edited by aggrad99 (edited 11/15/2006 12:13p).]

yap..very lengthy

Oh, so now we want to give Fran more breaks because our overall athletic budget is less than Texas? Wow, that really hurt Billy, huh?

Do you really want me to play that game? Hmm, let's see Iowa State's athetic budget is 34 million less than ours, but they beat us by 4 TD's at Kyle with maybe 2 NFL guys on that team.

You want me to keep going?

Facts and numbers dont lie. Great post.