It wasn't that long ago, sorry I can't just so cavalierly toss aside Fran's first year as you. Do you think we were paying him with monopoly money that year? Maybe he'll give us the $2M he earned that year back as a refund.

Oh, and we were still losing games in embarrasing fashion last season as well, I suppose we should just toss that year out too since Fran was still playing with some of RCs cancerous ne'er do wells.



[This message has been edited by MemAg92 (edited 11/14/2006 10:35p).]

The Iowa State debacle at Kyle Field was last year, three years into Fran's tenure. Finally, in year four we have a team that plays hard. They still often look unprepared in the first half, but they do make good halftime adjustments. Why does it take 4 years to finally get a team that plays with mental toughness and preparation?

I'm not trying to start a war, or derail the thread with this but....

Lets say the 77-0 game didn't happen. Pretend it was a 27-7 loss instead. We still have the losses to Baylor and to ISU and everything else. Is the outlook on Fran different today?

What I'm trying to figure out how much impact that one game has had on everyone's perception.

It seems to be the first thing brought up everytime the Fran arguement comes up.

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[This message has been edited by AgRyan04 (edited 11/14/2006 10:45p).]

Im calling BS. Every team has guys that dont pan out.. anybody that knows college football knows that. Look it up.

Ill repeat what I said on another thread. To quote Bill Parcells "a coach is what his record is".

RC doesnt have to apoligize for his record at A&M (nor his recruiting abilities).

Fran has a LONG way to go to have a record that isnt embarassing at A&M. Truth hurts, but thats the way it is.

That's a lot easier to say when you can cut players and sign new ones each and every year....ala NFL.

NCAA & NFL are two very different games.

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Actually it is probably harder in the nfl. With salary caps.. tough to keep players... in college when you recruit them they cant switch teams.

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We still have the losses to Baylor and to ISU and everything else. Is the outlook on Fran different today?

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RC had games where he didn't beat Baylor, SMU, Tulsa, SW Lousiana, etc. RC also had his share of games where we gave up 50+ to teams like t.u., OU, and Nebraska.

Many of the fans that bash Fran overlook these shortcomings of RC.

So then I can say that a coach who is playing with someone else's recruits shouldn't be judged quite the same as if he was playing with his recruits.

Which would then make it such that a coach isn't always what his record is.

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If you move around as much as Fran has you are always going to be coaching someone else's recruits. That goes without saying. We have always had good players at A&M and always will. Only the coaches change.

Fact checker: RC was 14-0 against Baylor. He also never gave up 50 points to anyone.

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Those NFL players were all on the offensive side of the ball, no defensive players at all. That is where our problem has been for the past 4 years. We could not stop anyone while they were on offense. Defense wins games (Nebraska this past weekend), we had a somewhat capable offense but no defense in those years. We are finally showing improvement this year and hopefully our recruits will continue to produce like the majority of Fran's kids have started to show this year. But if we don't win the Big 12 champoinship next year we need to look at something b/c 5 years is enough to rebuild any program.

Great post by the way.

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If you move around as much as Fran has you are always going to be coaching someone else's recruits. That goes without saying. We have always had good players at A&M and always will. Only the coaches change.

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I disagree with that.

First of all, Fran moving around isn't relevant.

Second of all, we have not always had good players. We had some very bad players and some very inexperienced players in 2003.

It's not just a handful of good players that you need. You suit up over 100 guys and you have 22 starters. 4-6 good players is not enough.

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[This message has been edited by AgRyan04 (edited 11/14/2006 11:45p).]

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Fact checker: RC was 14-0 against Baylor. He also never gave up 50 points to anyone.

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If only that were true, he'd still be here.

RC lost to Baylor? What year?

I didn't say he lost. But he didn't always win.

LOL... BILL CLINTON?

Tied in 1990.

Also, how many points did we give up in RC's last game? 50.

[This message has been edited by TxsAggieFn (edited 11/14/2006 11:51p).]

I stand corrected. I sped through the lists too quickly.

Fact checker got checked. Ouch.

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[This message has been edited by AgRyan04 (edited 11/14/2006 11:52p).]

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I stand corrected on the 50 point games. I sped through the lists too quickly.

He did, however, never lose to Baylor.

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He couldn't beat Baylor at home in 1990.

I can list quite a few games where our opponents scored 50+ on us.

can you name one where he gave up 77?

I can't name any where he scored 77, either.

AgRyan-

Also check the scores of the '96 tu (L15-51), 97 Nebraska (L15-54), and 99 OU (L6-51) games.

Oooh...Oooh...This is a perfect example of the 77-0 being the first shot fired.

I really think some will never get beyond that.


And here are the 50+ games:
'96 at tu
'97 Big 12 Championship v Neb
'99 at OU
'02 at tu

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tx aggiefn.. can you name his record at A&M?

That 1999 loss to unranked OU is still the most embarrassing one to me.

It's one thing to have a new coach and get blown out.

It is an entirely different thing to be the defending Big 12 Champs and have the team quit before halftime.

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tx aggiefn.. can you name his record at A&M?

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Sure, but I think I could have won most of those games as the coach. Look at who we played in our 12-1 season of 1992. Our two toughest conference opponents were Rice and Baylor.

DEFENDING BIG 12 CHAMPS.... damn that sounds pretty good right about now doesnt it?

Man those first four this year were tough too...LOL

LB's recruited by Fran:

2004:
Alton Boudreaux
Aaron Brown
Lee Foliaki
Kedric Goins
Renuel Green
Terrence Smith
Mark Young

2005:
Matt Featherston
Trey Ross
Jodie Richardson

2006:
Mark Dodge
Pierre Fleurinor
Anthony Lewis
Misi Tupe

Where are the contributors? Where is the depth? Looks like the class of 06 LB's have been better than 04 & 05 combined.

Cupboard bare in 02? Probably. But it didn't have to stay that way.


[This message has been edited by jel_2002 (edited 11/15/2006 12:08a).]

He was 123-47-2.

From '89-'95 he was 68-15-2

From '96-'98 he was 26-13-0

From '99-'02 he was 29-19-0

At the end it wasn't anywhere near what it had been

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DAMN THOSE RECORDS LOOK GOOD COMPARED TO THE LAST 4...LOL

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Man those first four this year were tough too...LOL

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LOL. Yeah. RC played a fraction of the ranked teams that Fran did.

Fran played more ranked teams in his first two years than RC did in his first four.

My favorite "worthless" stat is that Fran has beaten only 4 teams that were ranked at the end of the season. RC beat only 2 in his first 4 years.

but Ag77 you do see the in trend there right?

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JEL.. dont tell HW6RBW that. He thinks all the signed kids should contribute in a big way.

jel a lot of the lb's you listed were jucos that were brought in because there was nothing here. you are being obtuse