I guess the emails just come off as playing both sides of the fence. If I were asked to give the ID of a user, I wouldn't use the excuse of, "he never signed up."

I'd come right out and say that it is against the privacy policy. I know in later emails you said something to that effect, but it still looks bad that it took a few emails to get that across.

In the end, you did the right thing by not outing anyone. You never expected all of texags to read all those emails when you wrote them. I have to believe you were playing MM to maintain the relationship for the greater good of texags.

B--

I've been on the other side of these types of social engineering attempts and know they are very hard to defend against. You did extremely well. You had no real reason to think that MM was trying to stir up trouble at the beginning of the email chain and stood by the site's privacy policy.

Great work.

MM sounds like a paranoid creep. I think he's a wannabe FBI agent or something.

"Our suspect is in Dallas." Gimme a break.

Originally I was just kidding but after researching further and discovering how this was making your wife happy which in turn could only make you happy (hopefully), I now feel you are officially part of the "97" conspiracy. I hope this helps.

Mark Felt

Excellent. Thanks, Mark.

So, only 3 have information related to AgTags, which is good (and gives some explanation to those of you always waiting on Ag Tags ).

What is TexAgs policy on Private Messages? Who has access to them and are they ever accessed?

"The lady doth protests too much, methinks."

After reading all this, it still smells like reactive arse covering and spin-miestering of a bit too cozy a relationship btwn texags and the administration.

A relationship that calls into question the objectivity of Texags wrt the administration and program, and goes a long way in explaining much of the censorship.

Hindsight is 20-20, but a professional "We won't discuss user identifications" would have been a better response than engaging in the seductive dance of hypothesis as to id, and expose youself to even the slightest hint of favoritisim.

Lesson learned I hope.

"Tired cliches make poor foundations for arguments, methinks," especially the ones that equate self-defense with guilt.

I'm sure my "protests" will only reinforce your skepticism. Skepticism is fine. I just wish folks would be willing to say, "Hey, thanks anyway, I'm still skeptical," instead of trying to make connections that don't make sense.

Case in point: You connect "the censorship" with an apparently "too cozy" (and once secret, now exposed, as the story goes) relationship between Texags and the administration. Many disagree with Texags moderation practices, but the connection you're making simply doesn't wash. The moderation (or censorship, if you prefer) practices in question have been in place and consistently enforced for many years, predating any relationship between Texags and anyone in the athletic department by several years. There simply is no case for the causality you're suggesting.

And that makes your point about objectivity all the less relevant. Texags isn't writing news stories. Texags is aggregating articles about Texas A&M and providing a (free, by the way) forum for whosoever will to discuss a wide variety of issues, including A&M athletics. Texags makes no claim to objectivity as it relates to unsubstantiated rumors, name calling, attacks on individuals or groups, or endless calls for various people's heads. Texags is and has long been decidedly subjective in those matters.

As Brandon has pointed out in various places, this has been true since long before McKenzie or Franchione stepped foot in College Station. It was true when Texags had absolutely no relationship with anyone in administration. And it's always been very public.

This practice, for the record, is to maintain a position of neutrality with respect to various coaches and regimes - everyone is treated the same. It is mind boggling to me that so many educated Aggies can't understand that. You can either maintain neutrality by allowing anything and everything to be written or by "protecting" everyone on equal terms. Some sites do the former; Texags does the latter. Fran has received no more or less consideration than Slocum, Watkins, Johnson, or anyone else. Folks got tied up in knots over their inability to vent unfettered about each of those coaches. This is not new - it's just more visible and exaggerated because of the visibility of this situation and the continued growth of Texags presence among Aggies. It is not the result of unchecked AD influence or secret dealings. It's the result of decisions made years ago about the standards Texags wanted to uphold in the management of a private online forum. Others make different choices, and their services are also available to anyone interested.

If you have a rub with the practice, that's completely fine. It just doesn't add up to try to blame what you don't prefer on something suspicious or to use McKenzie's failures to impugn Brandon or Texags for their very public, long-standing business practices.

3rd

I recall something to that affect. BTW - I was in before the meltdown, and lost about 1500 posts. That was when I had a job that didn't require me to work much.

Reload

quote:

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he was still a very important person within the athletic department. You cannot just ignore him

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I think the statement that AC was softening his position, regarding getting a press pass is enough of a shot across the bow, as to what level of cooperation/friendliness is required.

I think the comments about RedAss losing his internship is also reflective of an Athletic Department, in which kindness is required. Something about flies and honey.

If your site is reliant on athletics... and you are hostile to the single department your site is centered around, then you won't be in business long. This site is more than just a BBS.

quote:

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I think the comments about RedAss losing his internship is also reflective of an Athletic Department, in which kindness is required.

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You mean it's reflective of how petty the Athletic Department is.

After reading all of that Brandon I guess my question is, who cares?

nm

[This message has been edited by BRP (edited 10/15/2007 7:46p).]

All of this BS seems to reinforce to me that it is time to clean house in the Frantastic A&M football coaching world.

quote:

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If your site is reliant on athletics... and you are hostile to the single department your site is centered around, then you won't be in business long. This site is more than just a BBS.

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I agree. That's why Brandon being polite to powers with in that department does not trouble me at all.

Brandon -

did you, or any staff of TexAgs cost Redass his internship?

Didn't Redass cost Redass his internship?

In response to Joe Bfstplk:

There is no email where the poster was identified. There is one where ****** was told where the guy was from. Who knows what was used for that.

Also, why does ****** need texags to find this thread? He doesn't he knew that he could get more than just a link to the thread.

The instant the response to ****** extended beyond "No, I cant because of our privacy policies" a mistake was made.


Response to Thad's logic expertise.

Texags did act complicit with ****** -read the emails.

Indisputably Texags did do more than it should have by disclosing a home town.

You are right that I am a skeptic. But in your heart of hearts, do you believe that all of ******'s requests and texags responses are contained in this disclosure? And again, why was ****** so sure that Texags would capitulate?

I understand that many of you disagree and think this site and Byrne are pristine. Thats not how the world works though. You really this: Fran knew of the VIP, ****** knew of the VIP, ****** wrote FWF, ****** wrote WW, ****** served as the voice of byrne on behalf of the athletic dept. by drafting his response emails to fans and former students, the head of the 12th man knew about VIP, Fran and Byrne embrace like best friends and bllod brothers everytime we win a game we thought we couldnt (tech at home two times ago) Byrne didn't know a thing about VIP.

Im done with this topic, but I am sending a letter to Bill Byrne with my handles, name, contact information, class year, employment position, salary, total donated to aTm and a print out of this thread so to not be considered a coward. I am sure I will be considered a bad ag for not turning a blind eye and wanting more out of our football program.

Custer the HOUSTON information was in the THREAD. It was like saying water is wet.

What part of that do you not get. Reading comprehension.

[This message has been edited by 3rd Generation Ag (edited 10/14/2007 11:14a).]

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But in your heart of hearts, do you believe that all of ******'s requests and texags responses are contained in this disclosure?

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I only have one heart, but yes, I am 100% sure that there are no other secret communications being withheld from you wherein Brandon reveals the identity of 97. Guess what? If that weren't true, 97 would have heard from McKenzie. Read around. 97 is completely satisfied with how Brandon handled the situation.

quote:

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I am sure I will be considered a bad ag for not turning a blind eye and wanting more out of our football program.

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Yes, because any of us defending Texags in this particular matter are completely blind to the state of the program and don't want more. Excellent point.

nevermind

[This message has been edited by Zone416 (edited 10/14/2007 5:09p).]

This is pathetic.

suggestions for new buttons when voting against a thread:

1. Copyrighted Material
2. Sexist/Racist against an individual poster
3. Flame against a coach or player
4. Needs to be labeled NSFW

quote:

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Also, why does ****** need texags to find this thread? He doesn't he knew that he could get more than just a link to the thread.

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Prove it.

We all know how well the search engine works. I'd hardly say that Brandon entering a search for MM equates to giving him private information.

quote:

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The instant the response to ****** extended beyond "No, I cant because of our privacy policies" a mistake was made.

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Yeah, there's SOOOOOOOO much he could do with the information that 97 was from Houston. BTW, you realize 97's profile SAYS THEY ARE FROM HOUSTON?

quote:

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Indisputably Texags did do more than it should have by disclosing a home town.

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You can't disclose something that is public knowledge.

quote:

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But in your heart of hearts, do you believe that all of ******'s requests and texags responses are contained in this disclosure?

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Considering these were released by the athletic department, yes. No, I don't believe the athletic department is involved in covering up texags involvement in revealing a poster's identity. Black helicopter much?

quote:

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Fran knew of the VIP, ****** knew of the VIP, ****** wrote FWF, ****** wrote WW, ****** served as the voice of byrne on behalf of the athletic dept. by drafting his response emails to fans and former students, the head of the 12th man knew about VIP, Fran and Byrne embrace like best friends and bllod brothers everytime we win a game we thought we couldnt (tech at home two times ago) Byrne didn't know a thing about VIP.

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This is why MM has been fired and part of the reason why Fran will be in November.

quote:

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I am sure I will be considered a bad ag for not turning a blind eye and wanting more out of our football program.

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Talk about a non-sequiter. The percentage of posters here who don't want a change now numbers in the single digits.

Brandon, from your emails, it looks like you did a good job, and should be commended for protecting 97's personal information. The only thing that stood out to me was this:

quote:

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Lil99chris finally entered into the conversation. Chris apparently previously knew about the VIP Connection newsletter. However, to my knowledge, he knew nothing about the top secret nature of it, the $$, Byrne not knowing, etc.

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I'm sorry, but that simply doesn't pass the smell test, given the very nature of it (especially with the warning at the bottom of the email). If he did indeed know about the newsletter before 97's post, let's face it, whoever told him or showed him the information would very likely would have explained not to tell or show anyone else.

quote:

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No such thing as Aggie Nation..It will always be Aggieland.

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Oh S*IT!!!!!Were in trouble now!!

http://reddirtkings.blogspot.com/2007/10/interesting-details-on-frangate.html

Frangate getting around...

Good job, Brandon. Sorry you had to go through all that. It's nice to know, though, that you and the mods are honest Ags that can be trusted.

Brandon - ya done well man. Custer, in answer to your question, yes I believe we have an accurate picture of what happened...I'm 100% sure of it. It's not that far a stretch to believe, as I always have, that 97 was from Houston.

I emphatically agree that MM is smarmy and was downplaying his fears about this information being leaked out. I particularly resent his characterization of Curly - dropping unprovable hearsay like he did to impugn her. Time for MM - and his boss - to hit the trail. I'm sick of it, damn sick of it.

I also believe that hindsight is 20/20 and Brandon would be the first to tell you that he would have handled all of this differently instead of playing diplomacy games with the AD.

However, lest we forget, this exchange did not happen in a vacuum. In context, there was no reason to believe that there was some grand mystery to the VIP Connections. Sorry, but I read those warnings at the bottom of all sorts of emails and mostly ignore them.

We're trying to evaluate INTENT based on what we know now - not what was known then. A lot of accusations are being leveled here based on current knowledge of facts, not on the facts as they existed at the time. That's absurd and unfair.

But Custer, if you need to leave, so be it. I don't think you're a "bad Ag" or anything if you believe your trust has been violated. I'm certain that Brandon wouldn't begrudge you that privilege either. But he has gone WAAAAY above and beyond the call of duty here.

I tell you this much, Brandon has already published a LOT of evidence supporting his position. I think you'll find that most of us trust that evidence over some of your gut feelings about it.

I applaud him for that.

But he always seemed like such a nice, quiet man. It just goes to show ya...Thanks for the disclosure!

I'm with 3rd Gen Ag on this --

quote:

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Custer the HOUSTON information was in the THREAD.

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Get over it Custer. All you have to do is look at 97's signature, which Brandon did, which I can do, which all of us can do, and make the same guess that he is from Houston.

I think that the guy even posts on the Houston board -- wasn't he the "Sprint is illegally porting/hijacking my cell phone number" dude? That was quite a rant.

some offseason reading

This is a classic. If they ever wanted to make an Any Given Sunday type movie about College Football - a dramatic expose of the underbelly of the game and its surrounding culture - they should base it on the Fran regime. It'd be perfect. Mix in Fran's sad family history, his rise to the top of coaching, his heralded takeover at A&M when he was regarded as the messiah, then downhill - 77-0, the following descent into loss and madness, all the drama with Reggie, Fran's well-known bizarre motivational techniques, the QB dating the coach's daughter, MM - Frans crummy toadie - and all his Nixon-like underhanded scheming and paranoia, and finally the Hitler-In-The-Bunker final days when as the whole thing was coming down Fran actively tried to turn the team against the fans. The ending is the best, after all this, as a coda, the coach wins his last game against the school's biggest rival and resigns right after. The credits roll just after the camera cuts to some fans in the parking lot outside the stadium watching the press conference as the coach gets up and leaves. If it was a movie, people would think the part where MM tried to get the owner Texags to give him the dirt on forum posters was pure BS. To think it really happened still blows my mind.