Zobel said:
Most vaccines don't meet the 2015 definition of vaccine.
Which antigen vaccines don't target immunity?
Get the Vax
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Last: 13 days ago by Sapper Redux
Which antigen vaccines don't target immunity?
Almost no vaccines actually confer sterilizing immunity.
Zobel said:
Almost no vaccines actually confer sterilizing immunity.
Agreed. What level of efficacy determines success?
Depends on what you're using as efficacy. If you're talking about preventing someone from being PCR positive, I think it's a complete waste of time. Even the polio vaccine doesn't prevent local infection. But if you're talking about preventing disease, the annual flu vaccine is probably a pretty good analog. That is 40-60% effective each year.
So you are saying it is a coin toss?
Efficacy is an odds ratio, not really like a coin toss. If you give 100 people the shot and have a matched group of 100 without it, you'd expect the efficacy number percent reduction between the two. So, if you have 10 people in the non vaccine group get sick, you'd expect a 50% efficacy vaccine group to have 5 people get sick.
So without the shot I may be one of the 10 people who get sick and with the shot I may be one of the 5 people that get sick? I don't know if it is worth the effort.
I think what they mean is if you're one of the 1 in 10 without the vaccine, there is a higher likelihood you could suffer more than if your the one in 5 with it. But that's what's great about our country....we can decide for ourselves.TAM85 said:
So without the shot I may be one of the 10 people who get sick and with the shot I may be one of the 5 people that get sick? I don't know if it is worth the effort.
One of my best friends refused the original vaccine for the first year and a half...then got COVID so bad he almost died in the hospital and left his wife and kids alone. He rethought he's anti vaccine stance after that. But again, his choice either way.
I haven't gotten the shingles vaccine...but likely will bc I've seen how horrible shingles can be.
To a point. If you haven't heard of Typhoid Mary, then you should look it up. Any society has a reasonable expectation that you won't be harmed just by participating in society, like going to a football game, the grocery store, or to work. This is the reason for police, sanitation, restaurant inspections, traffic laws, event security, intoxicated driving laws, and countless other things that are essential to our society. So to the extent that we can prevent harm to someone else, we have a responsibility to do so. It is reasonable for our society to expect basic things from us like not driving drunk, staying home when sick, and not using fireworks in severe drought conditions. Now say a vaccine exists that keeps you from spreading an infectious disease. Without the vaccine, you could become infected or just a carrier like Typhoid Mary, but with the vaccine you will not spread this disease. It is reasonable in a severe outbreak for that vaccine to be a requirement for public life. To say otherwise violates not only millenia of public health practices regarding infection, but also every other rule we have for protecting public health.Quote:
But that's what's great about our country....we can decide for ourselves.
Now to be fair, many things have to line up for this to be valid. First, you need an infectious disease that can cause serious harm. Second, you need a vaccine that greatly impacts the spread of that disease. Finally, you need an overwhelming outbreak. Relating this to COVID19, those conditions were present from April 2021, when the vaccine was released, until Dec 2021, when the omicron strain started spreading like crazy in vaccinated people. The initial vaccine was very good at preventing the spread of the Alpha and Delta strains. However, once Omicron came out and spread in the vaccinated, then vaccination became an entirely personal, risk mitigation decision. Government being government, by the time they got around to making vaccine mandates, they were very soon obsolete and wrong.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
If it's 50 percent then yes - you have reduced the likelihood of you getting the disease by 50%, all things being equal.
"Getting sick" isn't really the test. The test for the original vaccines was focused on severe outcomes, like hospitalization. The vaccines reduce your chances of being hospitalized by 60-90% depending on what strand, how many doses, and so on. It doesn't lower your chance of testing positive on a nose swab by nearly as much.
The issue with "one of the ten" is that eventually everyone is going to get covid... it is endemic. So the odds ratio is pretty straightforward in that it lowers your risk for whatever outcomes by x%.
"Getting sick" isn't really the test. The test for the original vaccines was focused on severe outcomes, like hospitalization. The vaccines reduce your chances of being hospitalized by 60-90% depending on what strand, how many doses, and so on. It doesn't lower your chance of testing positive on a nose swab by nearly as much.
The issue with "one of the ten" is that eventually everyone is going to get covid... it is endemic. So the odds ratio is pretty straightforward in that it lowers your risk for whatever outcomes by x%.
Let the liberals shake in their space boots once more. Crazy Nancy can't "protect" you from "hate speech" anymore. Looks like Kevin McCarthy is doing a fine job wearing her dress though.
Look ye mighty Marxofascists and despair as you sextruple "vax"[distort] your DNA and lose natural immunity altogether. Call yourself Property of Pizer because you are. Too bad Kodak didn't succeed with their "Vax", you could have called each case of sudden death syndrome, or heart failure in young people, a Kodak Moment. One of the goals may be to effectively make you AIDS patients but nonetheless you will be suffering unhealthy slaves to the medical system trap the rest of your lives.
You know, in Mexico and Canada a prescription from a "doctor" is not required to vend your pharmaceutical drug. You can walk right in to the pharmacy looking like a crack***** and get Valium, benzo, ephedrinemax, chloroquine, anything with cash tender. And You thought we were the land of the free? Well. Do you? Punk?!
Limited government keeps the psyops to the disarmament of groomed docile masse unlikely. But now the government 1. have half the country thinking they may be queer at anytime 2. to willingly suppress themselves with Lockdowns and 3. act as snitching communist Karen's against the non-compliant normies.
The government knew the bdsm liberals would take to the mask immediately, all they're missing is the government madame spanking them in public like they do with kids lgbtq story hour. I do admit a fetish for Fauci eyeglasses.
Revolution 1776! F Marxism. F modern US Marxofacsim. F the Uniparty. Save our Borders. Save 'Merica. F Mexico. F China.
Look ye mighty Marxofascists and despair as you sextruple "vax"[distort] your DNA and lose natural immunity altogether. Call yourself Property of Pizer because you are. Too bad Kodak didn't succeed with their "Vax", you could have called each case of sudden death syndrome, or heart failure in young people, a Kodak Moment. One of the goals may be to effectively make you AIDS patients but nonetheless you will be suffering unhealthy slaves to the medical system trap the rest of your lives.
You know, in Mexico and Canada a prescription from a "doctor" is not required to vend your pharmaceutical drug. You can walk right in to the pharmacy looking like a crack***** and get Valium, benzo, ephedrinemax, chloroquine, anything with cash tender. And You thought we were the land of the free? Well. Do you? Punk?!
Limited government keeps the psyops to the disarmament of groomed docile masse unlikely. But now the government 1. have half the country thinking they may be queer at anytime 2. to willingly suppress themselves with Lockdowns and 3. act as snitching communist Karen's against the non-compliant normies.
The government knew the bdsm liberals would take to the mask immediately, all they're missing is the government madame spanking them in public like they do with kids lgbtq story hour. I do admit a fetish for Fauci eyeglasses.
Revolution 1776! F Marxism. F modern US Marxofacsim. F the Uniparty. Save our Borders. Save 'Merica. F Mexico. F China.
defensewins said:
What must be in the minds of the liberal progressive Marxofascists that villianized and aggressed the healthy and innocuous population? The lies and crimes are still unpunished, but that's what the government does for those that willfully and easily submit to their propaganda. The shots do not work for the purpose it was sold for, brothers. But they do for their real intention. Lockdowns and masks do not work. But they do for the real purpose of total medical tyranny. These scared liberal masses are the real enemy of humankind because they trade liberty of ours, including mine, for total suppression of all, you.
Deborah Birx from her memoir, explaining how "two weeks to flatten the curve" was just marketing for harsh, months-long lockdowns that she was really planning:
— Kevin Bass PhD MS (@kevinnbass) October 21, 2023
"On Monday and Tuesday [March 9th and 10th, 2020]…we worked simultaneously to develop the flatten-the-curve guidance I…
Remind me. Who was President when Birx was allowed to lie to the world about all of this? I forgot.
Yes but to be fair, he always listed to his advisors and never had the gumption to fire anyone during his administration. Guy was too niceAgLiving06 said:
Remind me. Who was President when Birx was allowed to lie to the world about all of this? I forgot.
When this happens again (and it will) quarantine the sick not the healthy.
Prison break?
Jim Hogg is angry
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Why so angry, Jim?
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Star Wars Memes Only said:
Wow, this video is so incredibly stupid.
Really glad I skipped the vax and took ivermectin when I got covid. Better immediately and back to work asap. Kinda like Joe Rogan.
Does anyone still defend the vaccines? Is there anyone who admits their complete folly and foolishness promoting that poison?
Dumb video.snowdog90 said:Star Wars Memes Only said:
Wow, this video is so incredibly stupid.
Really glad I skipped the vax and took ivermectin when I got covid. Better immediately and back to work asap. Kinda like Joe Rogan.
Does anyone still defend the vaccines? Is there anyone who admits their complete folly and foolishness promoting that poison?
And I can tell be the way you phrased that question nothing I say or data I present will change your mind, but I got a booster vaccine in the fall. I still think, similar to flu vaccines, that anyone that is frail, elderly, or immunosuppressed should be getting the vaccine. Also obese or with underlying lung disease.
snowdog90 said:Star Wars Memes Only said:
Wow, this video is so incredibly stupid.
Really glad I skipped the vax and took ivermectin when I got covid. Better immediately and back to work asap. Kinda like Joe Rogan.
Does anyone still defend the vaccines? Is there anyone who admits their complete folly and foolishness promoting that poison?
So you're glad you took a placebo? Kay. And yes, the vaccines worked then and work now.
Take it to forum 84
Sapper Redux said:snowdog90 said:Star Wars Memes Only said:
Wow, this video is so incredibly stupid.
Really glad I skipped the vax and took ivermectin when I got covid. Better immediately and back to work asap. Kinda like Joe Rogan.
Does anyone still defend the vaccines? Is there anyone who admits their complete folly and foolishness promoting that poison?
So you're glad you took a placebo? Kay. And yes, the vaccines worked then and work now.
Insanity. Yeah, placebo... It is understandable you're still defending these crap vaccines since you were championing them when they came out. I'll tell my covid story here, though I've told it on other forums.
I was told about ivermectin in early 2020 (before any vaccine) by an Aggie nurse practitioner. She was taking the ivermectin sold at Tractor Supply, which she assured me is basically the same stuff that can be prescribed to humans.
I started taking it prophylactically and didn't get covid. By October of 2020, I figured I was in the clear and stopped taking it. In January of 2021, I got covid. I'm an over-the-road trucker and was delivering a load in Lubbock around midnight.
I felt horrible. Chills, aches, fever, weak... I felt worse than I had in years. I immediately took ivermectin, but couldn't sleep. I took 800 mg of acetaminophen, which finally dulled the aching enough to allow me to sleep.
I woke up around noon feeling much better. Still felt sick and weak, but no aches and no significant fever. My company put me in a Lubbock La Quinta for 5 days to quarantine, where I continued to take ivermectin and other meds. After the 5 days, I was back to work.
So don't tell me I took a placebo. That kind of arrogance is disgusting. Thousands of doctors prescribed ivermectin and got the miraculous, awesome results that I did.
As bad as covid could be for many people, I think my result could have been death, as covid hit me like a ton of bricks, and likely would have gotten much worse.
But I'm alive, probably due to ivermectin. Thank God for my nurse practitioner friend and doctors like Peter McCullough and Pierre Kory, who used ivermectin and saved countless lives.
My nurse practitioner friend, though obviously pro-ivermectin, was also very pro-vaccine. She ended up getting the vaccine and chastising me for not getting it.
One day, while she was sitting at work, her heart rate skyrocketed to 187 beats per minute. So she got the vaccine, and as a bonus, she got a cardiologist. YAY VACCINE!!
Ellis Wyatt, a texag poster, was hospitalized and in a coma after getting the vaccine. He now has a heart condition for the rest of his life.
These are just 2 of the vaccine injuries I personally know of. I know many more, and have heard many more second-hand.
And bigtruckguy, why would you still be getting boosters? That is just mind-boggling.
Here's a short video of a woman in Utah who was horribly injured by the vaccine. She started feeling bad the day she got jabbed. There's 45 thousand comments on the video. Try to find a comment defending the vaccine. I only spent a couple minutes and could only find stories of others who've been injured.
To still be defending this poison is just unbelievable to me.
It really is amazing that an 'educated' person still believes that the Covid vaccines work now. I'm guessing these same type of people still discount natural immunity (and probably wore masks outside).Sapper Redux said:snowdog90 said:Star Wars Memes Only said:
Wow, this video is so incredibly stupid.
Really glad I skipped the vax and took ivermectin when I got covid. Better immediately and back to work asap. Kinda like Joe Rogan.
Does anyone still defend the vaccines? Is there anyone who admits their complete folly and foolishness promoting that poison?
So you're glad you took a placebo? Kay. And yes, the vaccines worked then and work now.
"Natural immunity" is another word for infection. The death rate via "natural immunity" with COVID in 20-21 was 1%. Far lower with the vaccine.
That NP was behaving negligently and not following evidence-based medicine. Your anecdotal experience is not the same as evidence-based medical research. I'm glad you got better. Ivermectin had zilch to do with it.
So you still think it was a good idea to mandate the vaccine for people who had already had it?Sapper Redux said:
"Natural immunity" is another word for infection. The death rate via "natural immunity" with COVID in 20-21 was 1%. Far lower with the vaccine.
Sapper Redux said:
That NP was behaving negligently and not following evidence-based medicine. Your anecdotal experience is not the same as evidence-based medical research. I'm glad you got better. Ivermectin had zilch to do with it.
You are clueless.
I know what worked, I don't need you to tell me. As I said, thousands of doctors prescribed ivermectin with awesome results, like me.
Lie to yourself if you have to, but stop lying to others. It's sick.
Honestly it's amazing to me that educated individuals don't believe the COVID vaccine worked.RAB91 said:It really is amazing that an 'educated' person still believes that the Covid vaccines work now. I'm guessing these same type of people still discount natural immunity (and probably wore masks outside).Sapper Redux said:snowdog90 said:Star Wars Memes Only said:
Wow, this video is so incredibly stupid.
Really glad I skipped the vax and took ivermectin when I got covid. Better immediately and back to work asap. Kinda like Joe Rogan.
Does anyone still defend the vaccines? Is there anyone who admits their complete folly and foolishness promoting that poison?
So you're glad you took a placebo? Kay. And yes, the vaccines worked then and work now.
Everyone is presenting anecdotes here, but I can tell you from the front lines when the vaccine came out there was a huge difference in people presenting to the ER that were vaccinated and those that weren't. The unvaccinated had a significantly higher chance of getting admitted or dying. The vaccinated cases were pretty mild, even in the elderly. Saw seemingly healthy people in their 40's get ICU stays, and on rare occasion die.
I personally only saw one vaccinated person die last September from COVID. But he was also morbidly obese.
Again, these are all anecdotes. I'm sure you've seen plenty of unvaccinated people not die, and plenty of vaccinated people die. But this is just what I saw in the ER and ICU.
It worked.... for a short time. But once a new variant came into the population, that changed. And someone can correct me, but I think that was only 5-7 months after the initial vaccine came out. If it continued to work so well...bigtruckguy3500 said:Honestly it's amazing to me that educated individuals don't believe the COVID vaccine worked.RAB91 said:It really is amazing that an 'educated' person still believes that the Covid vaccines work now. I'm guessing these same type of people still discount natural immunity (and probably wore masks outside).Sapper Redux said:snowdog90 said:Star Wars Memes Only said:
Wow, this video is so incredibly stupid.
Really glad I skipped the vax and took ivermectin when I got covid. Better immediately and back to work asap. Kinda like Joe Rogan.
Does anyone still defend the vaccines? Is there anyone who admits their complete folly and foolishness promoting that poison?
So you're glad you took a placebo? Kay. And yes, the vaccines worked then and work now.
Everyone is presenting anecdotes here, but I can tell you from the front lines when the vaccine came out there was a huge difference in people presenting to the ER that were vaccinated and those that weren't. The unvaccinated had a significantly higher chance of getting admitted or dying. The vaccinated cases were pretty mild, even in the elderly. Saw seemingly healthy people in their 40's get ICU stays, and on rare occasion die.
I personally only saw one vaccinated person die last September from COVID. But he was also morbidly obese.
Again, these are all anecdotes. I'm sure you've seen plenty of unvaccinated people not die, and plenty of vaccinated people die. But this is just what I saw in the ER and ICU.
- Why did so many people with the vaccine get Covid?
- Why did so many people with the vaccine pass Covid to others?
- Why did the medical community feel the need to change the definition of what a vaccine was?
Like most people, I'm not anti-vaccine. If you're elderly, it is worth the risk to take it IMO. I'm just anti mandated vaccine. I'm also anti to the overreaction that we had to Covid (ex. not letting family in with their dying relatives, forcing mandates on people who had already had it, etc). Hopefully we learned...but I doubt it.
snowdog90 said:Sapper Redux said:
That NP was behaving negligently and not following evidence-based medicine. Your anecdotal experience is not the same as evidence-based medical research. I'm glad you got better. Ivermectin had zilch to do with it.
You are clueless.
I know what worked, I don't need you to tell me. As I said, thousands of doctors prescribed ivermectin with awesome results, like me.
Lie to yourself if you have to, but stop lying to others. It's sick.
There's zero rigorous studies produced that show any benefit with Ivermectin unless you have a comorbid parasite infection.
I learned a long time ago that there's no reasoning with a true believer Branch Covidian. Thanks for the reminder. And by the way, you may want to update your reading for natural immunity. HTH
Sapper Redux said:snowdog90 said:Sapper Redux said:
That NP was behaving negligently and not following evidence-based medicine. Your anecdotal experience is not the same as evidence-based medical research. I'm glad you got better. Ivermectin had zilch to do with it.
You are clueless.
I know what worked, I don't need you to tell me. As I said, thousands of doctors prescribed ivermectin with awesome results, like me.
Lie to yourself if you have to, but stop lying to others. It's sick.
There's zero rigorous studies produced that show any benefit with Ivermectin unless you have a comorbid parasite infection.
This is blatantly false.
Here is a YouTube video. At 27:41 is Pierre Kory talking about ivermectin. He lists several rigorous studies that showed positive effects against covid. This is from 3 years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/live/k8RyV3VEDKI?si=B3GCXLx57KMFxpiq
Of course, ivermectin was immediately attacked. You see, Pfizer and Moderna and all their politician investors couldn't make billions of dollars if a cheap drug like like ivermectin was shown to work.
Kory in the video says prophylaxis and early treatment are the key. When I was taking ivermectin prophylactically, I didn't get covid. When I stopped, I got covid. When I got covid, I took ivermectin immediately and got better the same day.
Just like Dr. Pierre Kory said the studies showed.
The vaccines were unnecessary. They never worked. They were never safe and effective. We were all lied to. You just happen to enjoy spreading the lie.
Kory? The guy who was found to be falsifying his data? That Kory? Kay.
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