I addressed this like 4 posts ago.dermdoc said:Every law or legislation steps on the "rights" of some individuals.Sapper Redux said:
That's not an ad hominem. Thats a simple fact. Stepping on the rights of individuals in the name of "social cohesion" and morality is a calling card of totalitarianism.
TxAgPreacher said:
We have the right to make Christian laws in our own country. Who are you to tell us otherwise?
To some degree, sure. And for the moment I have the right to oppose those laws and tell you why I think they are a bad idea.TxAgPreacher said:
We have the right to make Christian laws in our own country. Who are you to tell us otherwise?
Fair enough. But none of the other sins listed are thought to be behavior to be celebrated.kurt vonnegut said:Did I ask you to celebrate them?dermdoc said:
And nobody is saying that any of the sins listed are good and to be celebrated.
States have always had moral laws on the books. Sorry you don't understand how the country works.Sapper Redux said:TxAgPreacher said:
We have the right to make Christian laws in our own country. Who are you to tell us otherwise?
Well, there's a Constitution. It has things to say.
Just when I thought you had said it all, you go all Godwin on us.Sapper Redux said:
The Nazis were extremely anti-trans and LGBTQ in general. In the name of social morals and social cohesion. To protect the kids.
dermdoc said:Fair enough. But none of the other sins listed are thought to be behavior to be celebrated.kurt vonnegut said:Did I ask you to celebrate them?dermdoc said:
And nobody is saying that any of the sins listed are good and to be celebrated.
So where are the gluttony parades? Or the month of lust?kurt vonnegut said:dermdoc said:Fair enough. But none of the other sins listed are thought to be behavior to be celebrated.kurt vonnegut said:Did I ask you to celebrate them?dermdoc said:
And nobody is saying that any of the sins listed are good and to be celebrated.
People of other faith don't celebrate their faith?
You've never met someone who celebrated their permiscuity or gluttony or drunkeness?
Lust isn't celebrated?
Vanity?
Aside from the fist item, Christians are as big a contributor to the rest of these sins as anyone else in our society.
dermdoc said:
So where are the gluttony parades? Or the month of lust?
C' mon man.
I disagree. Christians do care about those other sins.kurt vonnegut said:dermdoc said:
So where are the gluttony parades? Or the month of lust?
C' mon man.
Again, you completely fail to understand the causal relationship.
There are no gluttony or lust parades because Christians don't care about people committing those sins. The whole point is that if you treated other sins the way you treat LGBTQ sins, then those sins would have a parade and a month.
And it is fascinating how you blame Christians rather than the LGBT folks. The Christians are the boogeyman. Sapper equated us to Nazis.kurt vonnegut said:dermdoc said:
So where are the gluttony parades? Or the month of lust?
C' mon man.
Again, you completely fail to understand the causal relationship.
There are no gluttony or lust parades because Christians don't care about people committing those sins. The whole point is that if you treated other sins the way you treat LGBTQ sins, then those sins would have a parade and a month.
You have yet to give one good reason as to why based on the outcomes its a good idea. Or given a single decent reason as to why it would be a bad idea. other than "BUT THE NAZI'S"... its ridiculous.kurt vonnegut said:To some degree, sure. And for the moment I have the right to oppose those laws and tell you why I think they are a bad idea.TxAgPreacher said:
We have the right to make Christian laws in our own country. Who are you to tell us otherwise?
dermdoc said:I disagree. Christians do care about those other sins.kurt vonnegut said:dermdoc said:
So where are the gluttony parades? Or the month of lust?
C' mon man.
Again, you completely fail to understand the causal relationship.
There are no gluttony or lust parades because Christians don't care about people committing those sins. The whole point is that if you treated other sins the way you treat LGBTQ sins, then those sins would have a parade and a month.
When is the last time you were in a church? How would you know?
And if you are going to continue to point out Christian hypocrisy, you have to acknowledge the hypocrisy of the militant LGBT folks. To my knowledge, no other sin is thrown in our face like this one.
dermdoc said:
And it is fascinating how you blame Christians rather than the LGBT folks. The Christians are the boogeyman. Sapper equated us to Nazis.
I know you are not a believer but read Romans 1. This is not new. There is nothing new under the sun.
And I bet the enlightened Romans and Greeks thought Christians were crazy and on the "wrong side of history" also.
And that may be the most revealing post you have ever made.kurt vonnegut said:dermdoc said:
And it is fascinating how you blame Christians rather than the LGBT folks. The Christians are the boogeyman. Sapper equated us to Nazis.
I know you are not a believer but read Romans 1. This is not new. There is nothing new under the sun.
And I bet the enlightened Romans and Greeks thought Christians were crazy and on the "wrong side of history" also.
What am I supposed to blame the LGBTQ folks for?
I actually can't determine what he's advocating for. He wants adults to have the right to transition. They already have that and whether we agree or not that right is not going away.TxAgPreacher said:You have yet to give one good reason as to why based on the outcomes its a good idea. Or given a single decent reason as to why it would be a bad idea. other than "BUT THE NAZI'S"... its ridiculous.kurt vonnegut said:To some degree, sure. And for the moment I have the right to oppose those laws and tell you why I think they are a bad idea.TxAgPreacher said:
We have the right to make Christian laws in our own country. Who are you to tell us otherwise?
I've given you plenty, and you're basically arguing for us to let them tragically destroy themselves even though they are mentally ill.
Somehow I'm the nazi, even though every law I would support has historical precedent, outside of nazi Germany, in basically every country. And produced stable societies. Dude you're a mess. Pull your head out of the sand. You're not being nice to these people.
If you are advocating for these radical polices then you have to prove it isn't harmful if we are going to change our society. We have run the experiment here lately with the liberalizing of these laws. It's horrific. Outcomes are horrible.
Sapper Redux said:CrackerJackAg said:Sapper Redux said:You're making violence against LGBTQ kids easier and turning a blind eye to it because they have a "mental illness." Nothing I've seen conservatives propose actually helps LGBTQ people. It just ostracizes them and provides tacit permission to demean and harm them.HumpitPuryear said:Sapper Redux said:AGC said:Sapper Redux said:
That's not an ad hominem. Thats a simple fact. Stepping on the rights of individuals in the name of "social cohesion" and morality is a calling card of totalitarianism.
So like the trans movement that socially transitions kids without notifying parents or takes them from their homes for not being affirming?
Just stop digging man. It's embarrassing how desperately you want someone else to be the bad guy when they react to your tyranny.
The way you sidestep the abuse faced by many LGBTQ kids to try and blame others is impressive. Almost as impressive as how you're ignoring the totalitarian tendencies in your argument.
Literally no one here wants any kid bullied. You are lying as usual. One of our fundamental issues with what you advocate it's the irreparable damage done to kids in the name of the movement. We are protecting children FROM YOU!
Mild bullying (non violent)has its place amongst children. It's how people learn to adapt to group norms and "toughen up" a bit during child hood.
Shame, in healthy doses, needs to make a come back in this country.
Kids are growing up without being told they are thought of as freak shows and end up surprised when they grow up and society doesn't care for them.
Trans whatever's grow up and find out that men don't want to date them. The shock!!
Kid should have been told ten years prior.
Ah, so kids NEED to have violence visited on them because of who they are. So that your norms can be enforced. Lovely.
Well I would start by pushing damaging behavior even on children.kurt vonnegut said:
I'm serious. I would like for you tell me what you think I'm supposed to blame LGBTQ persons for.
I have a wild idea. . . . You could ask me if that is what I want instead of making assumptions?HumpitPuryear said:
I actually can't determine what he's advocating for. He wants adults to have the right to transition. They already have that and whether we agree or not that right is not going away.
I suspect what he wants, but won't say, is he wants to force companies to hire them. He wants to force schools to employ them as teachers. He wants medical plans (meaning us) to pay the cost of transitioning. He want's intact males to be allowed into women's locker rooms and bathrooms etc. This is where the problem lies. I don't have any issue with an adult man pretending to be a woman or even mutilating their bodies if that's what they want to do but forcing them on society is wrong. It's like getting a face tattoo. Anyone is allowed to do it if they chose but there are consequences. You are making yourself unemployable in most careers. People are going to have a negative reaction to your appearance. There's a common thread to most liberal causes - no personal responsibility.
I did several posts up. You didn't answer then and you didn't answer here either. Hmmm wonder why?kurt vonnegut said:I have a wild idea. . . . You could ask me if that is what I want instead of making assumptions?HumpitPuryear said:
I actually can't determine what he's advocating for. He wants adults to have the right to transition. They already have that and whether we agree or not that right is not going away.
I suspect what he wants, but won't say, is he wants to force companies to hire them. He wants to force schools to employ them as teachers. He wants medical plans (meaning us) to pay the cost of transitioning. He want's intact males to be allowed into women's locker rooms and bathrooms etc. This is where the problem lies. I don't have any issue with an adult man pretending to be a woman or even mutilating their bodies if that's what they want to do but forcing them on society is wrong. It's like getting a face tattoo. Anyone is allowed to do it if they chose but there are consequences. You are making yourself unemployable in most careers. People are going to have a negative reaction to your appearance. There's a common thread to most liberal causes - no personal responsibility.
dermdoc said:Just when I thought you had said it all, you go all Godwin on us.Sapper Redux said:
The Nazis were extremely anti-trans and LGBTQ in general. In the name of social morals and social cohesion. To protect the kids.
You never disappoint sapper.
CrackerJackAg said:Sapper Redux said:CrackerJackAg said:Sapper Redux said:You're making violence against LGBTQ kids easier and turning a blind eye to it because they have a "mental illness." Nothing I've seen conservatives propose actually helps LGBTQ people. It just ostracizes them and provides tacit permission to demean and harm them.HumpitPuryear said:Sapper Redux said:AGC said:Sapper Redux said:
That's not an ad hominem. Thats a simple fact. Stepping on the rights of individuals in the name of "social cohesion" and morality is a calling card of totalitarianism.
So like the trans movement that socially transitions kids without notifying parents or takes them from their homes for not being affirming?
Just stop digging man. It's embarrassing how desperately you want someone else to be the bad guy when they react to your tyranny.
The way you sidestep the abuse faced by many LGBTQ kids to try and blame others is impressive. Almost as impressive as how you're ignoring the totalitarian tendencies in your argument.
Literally no one here wants any kid bullied. You are lying as usual. One of our fundamental issues with what you advocate it's the irreparable damage done to kids in the name of the movement. We are protecting children FROM YOU!
Mild bullying (non violent)has its place amongst children. It's how people learn to adapt to group norms and "toughen up" a bit during child hood.
Shame, in healthy doses, needs to make a come back in this country.
Kids are growing up without being told they are thought of as freak shows and end up surprised when they grow up and society doesn't care for them.
Trans whatever's grow up and find out that men don't want to date them. The shock!!
Kid should have been told ten years prior.
Ah, so kids NEED to have violence visited on them because of who they are. So that your norms can be enforced. Lovely.
I said exactly the opposite. You seem to struggle with this.
dermdoc said:
Are you showing love when you encourage people to continue in behavior that has been proven to be harmful?
Or are you showing love when you advise them this behavior is harmful to them?
Sapper Redux said:CrackerJackAg said:Sapper Redux said:CrackerJackAg said:Sapper Redux said:You're making violence against LGBTQ kids easier and turning a blind eye to it because they have a "mental illness." Nothing I've seen conservatives propose actually helps LGBTQ people. It just ostracizes them and provides tacit permission to demean and harm them.HumpitPuryear said:Sapper Redux said:AGC said:Sapper Redux said:
That's not an ad hominem. Thats a simple fact. Stepping on the rights of individuals in the name of "social cohesion" and morality is a calling card of totalitarianism.
So like the trans movement that socially transitions kids without notifying parents or takes them from their homes for not being affirming?
Just stop digging man. It's embarrassing how desperately you want someone else to be the bad guy when they react to your tyranny.
The way you sidestep the abuse faced by many LGBTQ kids to try and blame others is impressive. Almost as impressive as how you're ignoring the totalitarian tendencies in your argument.
Literally no one here wants any kid bullied. You are lying as usual. One of our fundamental issues with what you advocate it's the irreparable damage done to kids in the name of the movement. We are protecting children FROM YOU!
Mild bullying (non violent)has its place amongst children. It's how people learn to adapt to group norms and "toughen up" a bit during child hood.
Shame, in healthy doses, needs to make a come back in this country.
Kids are growing up without being told they are thought of as freak shows and end up surprised when they grow up and society doesn't care for them.
Trans whatever's grow up and find out that men don't want to date them. The shock!!
Kid should have been told ten years prior.
Ah, so kids NEED to have violence visited on them because of who they are. So that your norms can be enforced. Lovely.
I said exactly the opposite. You seem to struggle with this.
No, you didn't. You wished for more bullying. As though bullying ever went away. As though it doesn't have severe consequences on kids, even "minor" bullying. Even what you consider "nonviolent." The social bullying can be as destructive or more so depending on the situation and severity.
Quote:
You're making violence against LGBTQ kids easier and turning a blind eye to it because they have a "mental illness." Nothing I've seen conservatives propose actually helps LGBTQ people. It just ostracizes them and provides tacit permission to demean and harm them.
They say that, and then they kill themselves.Macarthur said:
YOu would be hard pressed to find any medical procedure that has a 94% satisfaction rate.
Macarthur said:
YOu would be hard pressed to find any medical procedure that has a 94% satisfaction rate.
dermdoc said:Well I would start by pushing damaging behavior even on children.kurt vonnegut said:
I'm serious. I would like for you tell me what you think I'm supposed to blame LGBTQ persons for.
How about public lewd behavior at parades, etc?
You are blind if you can not see the damage caused by promoting this lifestyle.
THEY ARE KILLING THEMELVES THATS CLEARLY HARM. They are also depressed, on drugs ect.kurt vonnegut said:dermdoc said:Well I would start by pushing damaging behavior even on children.kurt vonnegut said:
I'm serious. I would like for you tell me what you think I'm supposed to blame LGBTQ persons for.
How about public lewd behavior at parades, etc?
You are blind if you can not see the damage caused by promoting this lifestyle.
The concern I have about your first sentence is the word 'damaging'. If your definition of damaging includes anything not consistent with Christianity, then a Hindu raising their child in their faith is 'pushing damaging behavior' on children. I'm not going to condemn someone for believing as they do. That is your job apparently.
Are there LGBTQ persons that have harmed children. Absolutely. And I don't make excuses for their behavior. I also don't apply blanket condemnation of all people for the transgressions of some. Like, I don't think you owe an apology for all the kids raped by priests. Being also a Christian doesn't make you personally responsible for the actions of every Christian.
I'm not advocating for public lewd behavior. I also don't condemn all LGBTQ persons for 'crossing of the line' at parades. Similarly, I don't condemn Christianity for what goes on at Mardi Gras?
And while we are on the topic of lewd behavior. There are two billboards I drive by on my way into work with women in bikinis - one for some alcoholic spritzer and one promoting air conditioning. How dare heterosexuals expose our children to that smut, right? Where are the complaints from Christians about the rampant heterosexual sexualization. Lets take all of the sexualization in our society and put it in a bucket - what percentage of that bucket is LGBTQ?
And I guess I'm blind.
Here is the crux of what has apparently been an ongoing debate between two very different groups on various TexAgs threads for years.kurt vonnegut said:To some degree, sure. And for the moment I have the right to oppose those laws and tell you why I think they are a bad idea.TxAgPreacher said:
We have the right to make Christian laws in our own country. Who are you to tell us otherwise?
