******* Official Cowboys draft 2024 *******

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Orlando Ayala Cant Read
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Ag Natural said:

jja79 said:

They haven't played for even a conference championship in almost 30 years. What other measure of failure do you need?


It's logic. So you can say they haven't made a conference final in 30 years and that equals it's a terrible organization that never will. Yet they've had a lot of regular season success and identified more pro bowlers than almost anyone.

By your definition the Bengals have a great owner because they've made one superbowl. Even though we know they spend less money on scouting than any team in the league.

The Jones aren't doing it totally wrong. They've made a few mistakes and they've had horrendously bad luck. But calling them a dumpster fire is not accurate. I'll stand by that. Jerry runs this team like a fan. As a fan, I can appreciate that. I do think they've gotten smarter over the years. But at the end of the day do you want a venture capital firm to own this team?


We will agree to disagree. When statistically speaking 1 of 8 teams makes a conference championship game every single year, and your team with the most resources, the most money, the most everything cannot in almost 30 years that to me is a failure. Are they a total failure? Maybe not. But not getting to a conference title game in that long a period is a failure to some degree. Also, there has been talk of culture issues throughout the organization for years. In recent years we've seen in-fighting between teammates forcing trade aways. We've seen an owner hire coordinators before head coaches. We've heard former players say that if they had issues they bypassed the coaching staff and went straight to the Jones family.

But again, forget all that. The results don't lie and the results have fallen way short of what expectations are and what their resources say they should be doing.
VP at Pierce and Pierce
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I think Jerry goes after Bill Belichik next season. Young team ready to win. They will re-sign Dak. I think Jerry swallows his pride and brings in Bill to coach only and keeps everything else in the front office.
jr15aggie
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They are baffling, no doubt about it. Since 2000 they are 10th in the NFL in total wins. Every team that is 1-9 has at least 1 Super Bowl title (most have multiple). The damn Giants & Bucs are 19th and 28th they both have two!!!

I'm not saying the franchise is dysfunctional, but if you were arguing for that, you can point to the fact that we've had (statistically speaking) one of the best QBs in the NFL for 17 consecutive years (worth noting that we lost both Romo/Dak to season ending injuries a few years) and we have nothing to show for it. Lightening in a bottle with an undrafted free agent and 4th round pick and we pissed away both!

During that entire time we couldn't even make the NFC Championship one time! It could very well take us a decade to find that next QB who is widely considered a top 10 NFL signal caller. It's going to be the early 2000's all over again when we are signing guys like Ryan Leaf or bringing in some rando who couldn't cut it in MLB.

It could get a lot worse before it ever gets better!
VP at Pierce and Pierce
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Which is exactly why they wont let Dak walk.
Rex Racer
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In 1995, I was 27 years old and riding high, thinking I would get to see at least 4 more Super Bowls in my lifetime. Now, I'm 55 and wonder if I'll ever see an NFC Championship Game again.

Sad.
PooDoo
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I want a really good RB because I don't trust Dak to be able to win in the playoffs without an elite running game to carry the load.
bonfarr
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VP at Pierce and Pierce said:

I think Jerry goes after Bill Belichik next season. Young team ready to win. They will re-sign Dak. I think Jerry swallows his pride and brings in Bill to coach only and keeps everything else in the front office.


You really think Belichek would go for that? He pretty much had full autonomy on personnel at NE.
Disclaimer: Views expressed in this post reflect the opinions of Texags user bonfarr and are not to be accepted as facts or to be accepted at face value.
jja79
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Rex Racer said:

In 1995, I was 27 years old and riding high, thinking I would get to see at least 4 more Super Bowls in my lifetime. Now, I'm 55 and wonder if I'll ever see an NFC Championship Game again.

Sad.


I was 39 then. This week I'll be 67 and still nothing. . At least you have more runway than me.
jja79
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Ag Natural said:

jja79 said:

They haven't played for even a conference championship in almost 30 years. What other measure of failure do you need?


It's logic. So you can say they haven't made a conference final in 30 years and that equals it's a terrible organization that never will. Yet they've had a lot of regular season success and identified more pro bowlers than almost anyone.

By your definition the Bengals have a great owner because they've made one superbowl. Even though we know they spend less money on scouting than any team in the league.

The Jones aren't doing it totally wrong. They've made a few mistakes and they've had horrendously bad luck. But calling them a dumpster fire is not accurate. I'll stand by that. Jerry runs this team like a fan. As a fan, I can appreciate that. I do think they've gotten smarter over the years. But at the end of the day do you want a venture capital firm to own this team?


I don't even know what to say. Have you got your replica Pro Bowl ring? Your We're Top 10 Regular Season Wins tee shirt? Your post speaks volumes to why they have Zero incentive to win. People still making excuses after 29 years.
Ag Natural
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jja79 said:

Ag Natural said:

jja79 said:

They haven't played for even a conference championship in almost 30 years. What other measure of failure do you need?


It's logic. So you can say they haven't made a conference final in 30 years and that equals it's a terrible organization that never will. Yet they've had a lot of regular season success and identified more pro bowlers than almost anyone.

By your definition the Bengals have a great owner because they've made one superbowl. Even though we know they spend less money on scouting than any team in the league.

The Jones aren't doing it totally wrong. They've made a few mistakes and they've had horrendously bad luck. But calling them a dumpster fire is not accurate. I'll stand by that. Jerry runs this team like a fan. As a fan, I can appreciate that. I do think they've gotten smarter over the years. But at the end of the day do you want a venture capital firm to own this team?


I don't even know what to say. Have you got your replica Pro Bowl ring? Your We're Top 10 Regular Season Wins tee shirt? Your post speaks volumes to why they have Zero incentive to win. People still making excuses after 29 years.


There's no excuses. I'm just pointing out that they clearly care about winning and many decisions have been good ones. They aren't one of the worst run franchises in the league as many suggest here.
Infection_Ag11
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jja79 said:

Ag Natural said:

jja79 said:

They haven't played for even a conference championship in almost 30 years. What other measure of failure do you need?


It's logic. So you can say they haven't made a conference final in 30 years and that equals it's a terrible organization that never will. Yet they've had a lot of regular season success and identified more pro bowlers than almost anyone.

By your definition the Bengals have a great owner because they've made one superbowl. Even though we know they spend less money on scouting than any team in the league.

The Jones aren't doing it totally wrong. They've made a few mistakes and they've had horrendously bad luck. But calling them a dumpster fire is not accurate. I'll stand by that. Jerry runs this team like a fan. As a fan, I can appreciate that. I do think they've gotten smarter over the years. But at the end of the day do you want a venture capital firm to own this team?


I don't even know what to say. Have you got your replica Pro Bowl ring? Your We're Top 10 Regular Season Wins tee shirt? Your post speaks volumes to why they have Zero incentive to win. People still making excuses after 29 years.
The point is that this absurd caricature of the Cowboys organization as a Mickey Mouse operation is just that, absurd. Since 1995 Dallas is 9th in the NFL in wins, 8th in PPG, 5th in PPG allowed, tied for 10th in playoff games and 8th in playoff appearances. Their longest stretch of consecutive seasons missing the playoffs was 4. They have the 4th most pro-bowlers and 7th most all pros in that time. They have consistently been an extremely competitive franchise during that time frame. The majority of franchises have performed worse to FAR worse over the same period of time.

Now, if you want to call ALL the franchises that have done worse than Dallas and are prepared to argue all but a handful of organizations are jokes then I guess I can't argue with you. But in my experience that isnt the case. These claims usually amount to emotional outbursts from immature sports fans who think the Bengals are a better franchise since 1995 because they landed Joe Burrow and made a Superbowl run in the recent past. I have no time for such nonsense.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Infection_Ag11
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PooDoo said:

I want a really good RB because I don't trust Dak to be able to win in the playoffs without an elite running game to carry the load.

Having an elite running back, or running game in general, doesnt statistically correlate with winning at all. This is because it's a low margin of error style of play and most playoff teams are good at stopping the run. It's why the classic one and done 1/2 seed are the teams that lean on their running game with average adjusted passing metrics. in single elimination format such teams are often one play away from losing. Everyone was shocked when Ravens lost in 2019 in the divisional round, but that was actually the exact type of team that does that historically.

There are three kinds of teams that win Superbowls, generally speaking. One, teams with transcendent generational QBs who make it back over and over again. These are your Montana 49ers, Brady Patriots, Mahomes Chiefs, etc. Two, teams with all time great defenses that nobody can score on. Think 1985 Bears, 2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucs, 2013 Seahawks, etc. The rules changes of the last decade and the overall skill of QBs/playcallers has made this type of team extinct for all intents and purposes. You probably wont see an elite defense without a very good QB win it all again. And three, teams with good QBs who have individual seasons with statistically anomalous passing efficiency metrics and + turnover margins (either in the regular season or their playoff run). Dallas was actually a classic example of this third category last year, a statistically great year in terms of passing efficiency from a good QB and a strong + turnover margin. These reason this third category of teams has trouble doing it repeatedly is because the QBs wont be elite every year, and turnover margin is very difficult to reproduce year over year. But unless you land an all time great QB the 2023 Dallas Cowboys are the type of team statistically you want to be.

The problem with this fanbase is that it has become so superstitious that it believes that just the mere existence of Jerry Jones in the building magically prevents the Cowboys from winning in the playoffs, despite players/coaches/facilities/etc. changing over decades. As if him being in the press box has somehow made successive generations of players all suddenly play poorly on random Sundays in January. The reality is Dallas is the most statistically anomalous postseason franchise since 1995, every other team with similar or better metrics aggregated over that time span has either won a superbowl or played in 2+ superbowls. And because the sample size of playoff games is so relatively small yes, statistical anomalies ARE what is happening. Tony Romo and Dak Prescott and late career Troy Aikman arent all linked by the curse of Jerry Jones, they are linked by a series of events that together creates a striking statistical outlier. The Cowboys since 1995 are that stretch in 100000 coin flips where you land on heads 16 straight times. This is not the case of a franchise being run so poorly that they are never good. Dallas is USUALLY good, and very rarely are they eliminated from the playoffs prior to the last 1-2 weeks of the season.

The goal is to get to the playoffs over and over again and eventually you will break through. Every other team that has done what Dallas has in the regular season has. Eventually, if Dallas keeps doing it things will revert to the mean and they'll make it back to the SB. I know this isnt what our monkey brains find intuitive but it's just reality. The universe isnt going to make them fumble while kneeling out the clock in the NFC title game just to prevent Jerry Jones from making it to the SB again, I promise. All of this is magical thinking of the highest order.
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jja79
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This thread is about the Cowboys, not the other franchises. They haven't won in almost 30 years. You think 9th most wins is fine. Enjoy. Probably more to come.
Infection_Ag11
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That's a cop out
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ChemAg15
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Star if you think Dak can lead the Cowboys to a Superbowl
ChemAg15
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Star if you think Dak cannot lead the cowboys to a Superbowl
shack009
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jja79 said:

This thread is about the Cowboys, not the other franchises. They haven't won in almost 30 years. You think 9th most wins is fine. Enjoy. Probably more to come.


And you think it's dumb to trade down, get the same guy you wanted all along, and then address another OL need with the pick you acquired for moving down.

If you're wondering why your favorite franchise has so many wins, it's because they do smart stuff like that. Enjoy. More wins to come.
ramblin_ag02
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You're doing statistics backward. A 1 in 1000 chance of something happening by chance is a p value of 0.001. You said 16 coin flips, which is way lower chances than that. In any real world studies, that's as good as proof that something besides chance is causing the outcome. So based on your own figures, the chances of the Cowboys doing so well in the regular season and so badly on the postseason is almost certainly due to something besides chance, and the only common factor for almost 30 years is Jerry Jones and family.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Ag Natural
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ramblin_ag02 said:

You're doing statistics backward. A 1 in 1000 chance of something happening by chance is a p value of 0.001. You said 16 coin flips, which is way lower chances than that. In any real world studies, that's as good as proof that something besides chance is causing the outcome. So based on your own figures, the chances of the Cowboys doing so well in the regular season and so badly on the postseason is almost certainly due to something besides chance, and the only common factor for almost 30 years is Jerry Jones and family.


Not true. What's also common is they are in Dallas and have been the most valuable and popular franchise in the league and top 2 or 3 in the World. I could easily argue that the pressure is greater and it shows in the playoffs.

Compare it to the Yankees who also have had a long drought. They had their run when they stumbled into a couple of all time greats AND they could outspend everyone. It's no coincidence that the Cowboys great run came mostly before the salary cap was implemented. It's also a fact that they haven't stumbled into any all time greats in quite a while. Maybe Parsons and Lamb can get there.

My theory is the only way to break through this kind of pressure is to land a couple all timers who can elevate above it. We need our version of Mariano Rivera.
TyHolden
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pick wasted....

DannyDuberstein
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That option was $22 mill guaranteed. They were never gonna pick it up. They can still work out an extension later
TyHolden
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DannyDuberstein said:

That option was $22 mill guaranteed. They were never gonna pick it up. They can still work out an extension later
I think Jerrah is looking at the Texans and thinking "yeah, we can do that. let's blow it up and build it back up. I got 3-4 more years."
jteagle
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Infection_Ag11 said:

PooDoo said:

I want a really good RB because I don't trust Dak to be able to win in the playoffs without an elite running game to carry the load.

Having an elite running back, or running game in general, doesnt statistically correlate with winning at all. This is because it's a low margin of error style of play and most playoff teams are good at stopping the run. It's why the classic one and done 1/2 seed are the teams that lean on their running game with average adjusted passing metrics. in single elimination format such teams are often one play away from losing. Everyone was shocked when Ravens lost in 2019 in the divisional round, but that was actually the exact type of team that does that historically.

There are three kinds of teams that win Superbowls, generally speaking. One, teams with transcendent generational QBs who make it back over and over again. These are your Montana 49ers, Brady Patriots, Mahomes Chiefs, etc. Two, teams with all time great defenses that nobody can score on. Think 1985 Bears, 2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucs, 2013 Seahawks, etc. The rules changes of the last decade and the overall skill of QBs/playcallers has made this type of team extinct for all intents and purposes. You probably wont see an elite defense without a very good QB win it all again. And three, teams with good QBs who have individual seasons with statistically anomalous passing efficiency metrics and + turnover margins (either in the regular season or their playoff run). Dallas was actually a classic example of this third category last year, a statistically great year in terms of passing efficiency from a good QB and a strong + turnover margin. These reason this third category of teams has trouble doing it repeatedly is because the QBs wont be elite every year, and turnover margin is very difficult to reproduce year over year. But unless you land an all time great QB the 2023 Dallas Cowboys are the type of team statistically you want to be.

The problem with this fanbase is that it has become so superstitious that it believes that just the mere existence of Jerry Jones in the building magically prevents the Cowboys from winning in the playoffs, despite players/coaches/facilities/etc. changing over decades. As if him being in the press box has somehow made successive generations of players all suddenly play poorly on random Sundays in January. The reality is Dallas is the most statistically anomalous postseason franchise since 1995, every other team with similar or better metrics aggregated over that time span has either won a superbowl or played in 2+ superbowls. And because the sample size of playoff games is so relatively small yes, statistical anomalies ARE what is happening. Tony Romo and Dak Prescott and late career Troy Aikman arent all linked by the curse of Jerry Jones, they are linked by a series of events that together creates a striking statistical outlier. The Cowboys since 1995 are that stretch in 100000 coin flips where you land on heads 16 straight times. This is not the case of a franchise being run so poorly that they are never good. Dallas is USUALLY good, and very rarely are they eliminated from the playoffs prior to the last 1-2 weeks of the season.

The goal is to get to the playoffs over and over again and eventually you will break through. Every other team that has done what Dallas has in the regular season has. Eventually, if Dallas keeps doing it things will revert to the mean and they'll make it back to the SB. I know this isnt what our monkey brains find intuitive but it's just reality. The universe isnt going to make them fumble while kneeling out the clock in the NFC title game just to prevent Jerry Jones from making it to the SB again, I promise. All of this is magical thinking of the highest order.

This is either the best fan fiction I've ever read or the worst take I've seen in a very long time. What a load of crap. In my opinion, the reason the the Cowboys are so poor in the playoffs is coaching. They have the player personnel but the team is consistently unprepared and outcoached in the playoffs. The Cowboys haven't had a gamechanging coach since they fired Jimmy Johnson. They came close with Parcells but he never really had a QB to get over the top.
Kashchei
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https://www.wfaa.com/article/sports/nfl/cowboys/ezekiel-elliot-dallas-cowboys-number/287-bd822110-8443-42de-8303-016a089f9521

Zeke to wear #15 instead of #21. Jerruh is happy because he gets a few more dollars worth of jersey sales.
jr15aggie
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Who in their right mind would buy a #15 Zeke jersey!?!

Nevermind, I've seen the people at Cowboy games... they will probably sell 1,000 of them!
TyHolden
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I have a Dak jersey that I bought after his rookie year. Last jersey I've bought. I might not buy another. I'll wear it when Dak goes to the Super Bowl as a backup for the Texans.
jr15aggie
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I've only ever owned 1 jersey which is Aikman. I also got it after he retired.

If I were to ever get another I'm pretty sure I'd pick another retired player... it can't be fun spending money on a jersey on an active player and then he goes to another team. I wonder if I could get a Bill Bates jersey!?! He was my hero as a kid, loved that guy! I ended up being a white boy safety too and I always tried to play the way that guy did.
TyHolden
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jr15aggie said:

I've only ever owned 1 jersey which is Aikman. I also got it after he retired.

If I were to ever get another I'm pretty sure I'd pick another retired player... it can't be fun spending money on a jersey on an active player and then he goes to another team. I wonder if I could get a Bill Bates jersey!?! He was my hero as a kid, loved that guy! I ended up being a white boy safety too and I always tried to play the way that guy did.
Yeah, that's probably what I'll do from now on. I have an Aikman jersey as well. It has Dat's autograph on it though
AgBQ-00
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jr15aggie said:

I've only ever owned 1 jersey which is Aikman. I also got it after he retired.

If I were to ever get another I'm pretty sure I'd pick another retired player... it can't be fun spending money on a jersey on an active player and then he goes to another team. I wonder if I could get a Bill Bates jersey!?! He was my hero as a kid, loved that guy! I ended up being a white boy safety too and I always tried to play the way that guy did.
Bought my nephew a Staubach jersey for Christmas. Got his dad an Irvin jersey. They were both pumped about it.
Ag Natural
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TyHolden
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Ag Natural said:


If that's the official Dallas Cowboys store, they are already marked up 2-3 times the normal price.
bonfarr
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AgBQ-00 said:

jr15aggie said:

I've only ever owned 1 jersey which is Aikman. I also got it after he retired.

If I were to ever get another I'm pretty sure I'd pick another retired player... it can't be fun spending money on a jersey on an active player and then he goes to another team. I wonder if I could get a Bill Bates jersey!?! He was my hero as a kid, loved that guy! I ended up being a white boy safety too and I always tried to play the way that guy did.
Bought my nephew a Staubach jersey for Christmas. Got his dad an Irvin jersey. They were both pumped about it.


Staubach jersey was my prized possession as a kid. When I was 5 Dad took me to JC Penney and bought me a Staubach jersey and I insisted on holding the bag as we walked around the mall and sure enough I left it somewhere and lost it. I cried and cried and Dad took me back to Penney's and they were all out of Staubach in kid sizes and he bought me a Charlie Waters jersey and the whole ride home he tried to tell me how Waters was awesome and that was the best jersey while I sat there sniffling in tears. Had to wait until Christmas to get another Staubach jersey.
Rex Racer
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bonfarr said:

AgBQ-00 said:

jr15aggie said:

I've only ever owned 1 jersey which is Aikman. I also got it after he retired.

If I were to ever get another I'm pretty sure I'd pick another retired player... it can't be fun spending money on a jersey on an active player and then he goes to another team. I wonder if I could get a Bill Bates jersey!?! He was my hero as a kid, loved that guy! I ended up being a white boy safety too and I always tried to play the way that guy did.
Bought my nephew a Staubach jersey for Christmas. Got his dad an Irvin jersey. They were both pumped about it.


Staubach jersey was my prized possession as a kid. When I was 5 Dad took me to JC Penney and bought me a Staubach jersey and I insisted on holding the bag as we walked around the mall and sure enough I left it somewhere and lost it. I cried and cried and Dad took me back to Penney's and they were all out of Staubach in kid sizes and he bought me a Charlie Waters jersey and the whole ride home he tried to tell me how Waters was awesome and that was the best jersey while I sat there sniffling in tears. Had to wait until Christmas to get another Staubach jersey.
I had a Staubach jersey as a kid, too. And I would proudly wear one now as a 55-year old! That's how much I admire Roger Staubach. I actually have a Tom Landry t-shirt that my wife got me for Christmas last year that I enjoy sporting around town in, as well.
VP at Pierce and Pierce
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bonfarr said:

VP at Pierce and Pierce said:

I think Jerry goes after Bill Belichik next season. Young team ready to win. They will re-sign Dak. I think Jerry swallows his pride and brings in Bill to coach only and keeps everything else in the front office.


You really think Belichek would go for that? He pretty much had full autonomy on personnel at NE.
Yes, he has since said he would only coach at his next stop. I believe he wants to take over a team that is already ready to compete so he and his staff can take them next level. Which is why I wouldn't be shocked if he takes over Philly if they don't produce this fall.
VP at Pierce and Pierce
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Ag Natural said:

ramblin_ag02 said:

You're doing statistics backward. A 1 in 1000 chance of something happening by chance is a p value of 0.001. You said 16 coin flips, which is way lower chances than that. In any real world studies, that's as good as proof that something besides chance is causing the outcome. So based on your own figures, the chances of the Cowboys doing so well in the regular season and so badly on the postseason is almost certainly due to something besides chance, and the only common factor for almost 30 years is Jerry Jones and family.


Not true. What's also common is they are in Dallas and have been the most valuable and popular franchise in the league and top 2 or 3 in the World. I could easily argue that the pressure is greater and it shows in the playoffs.

Compare it to the Yankees who also have had a long drought. They had their run when they stumbled into a couple of all time greats AND they could outspend everyone. It's no coincidence that the Cowboys great run came mostly before the salary cap was implemented. It's also a fact that they haven't stumbled into any all time greats in quite a while. Maybe Parsons and Lamb can get there.

My theory is the only way to break through this kind of pressure is to land a couple all timers who can elevate above it. We need our version of Mariano Rivera.
They did the statics of the Cowboys failures of the last 30 years on the Ticket a few months ago. If I remember correctly there was a 2% chance a team would not make the conference championship game in 30 years. You can call it bad luck or mismanagement but the odds of at least making a conference title game was 98% and they couldn't even do that.
 
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